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  1. #361
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    How do I see crystal clear what WLC is saying but you don't?
    Dunno. Best guess, you both from the same planet.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #362
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Tim:

    This isn't going to work if you keep amusing yourself.

    I don't particularly like some of them either. But, you know something, you do have to do the right thing at some point.

    I know what discovery feels like. It's a drug Tim.

    Get functional please.

    They have no clue what you're saying.

    I understand your message.

    Unfortunately. I've got more degrees than a thermometer!

    Don't hold them against me.

    Heh, heh.

  3. #363
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    OT:

    It's not in any book I've read.

    It's an undocumented behavior/management technique.

    There could literally be empty space on either side of drawn/filled frames. They'll keep moving up.

    I pulled them up. I couldn't believe it.

    Tim was right.
    There is a maximum upper limit tho. Which is dictated by the number of early brood cycles and frames laid out. Hive ratio.

  4. #364
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Yup.

    It took time to pull them up.

    Yes.

  5. #365
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Yup.

    It took time to pull them up.

    Yes.
    With 10 supers on they'll still swarm. A queen will move all the way to the top. You could actually pile another 7 on..

  6. #366
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Yup.

    It took time to pull them up.

    Yes.
    It gets even more interesting going past that threshold.

  7. #367
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I am interested in this subject but your post is meaningless. Please elucidate.
    I can't take non feral stocks and get them to perform the same. Doesn't matter how much drawn comb I give them. Is the simplest way I can explain it.

  8. #368
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    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    6,121

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Radar, you archiving #347!
    I'm just watching this whole charade in disbelief!

    OT seems to be a pretty smart guy, but I simply can't figure out why he continues to engage WLC.

    And as I tried to point out in an earlier thread, it is imperative for a good salesman to be a believer in the superiority of his own product, but being 'cocky' rarely gets the desired result. And promising future cockiness is just bass-ackwards!



    There is plenty of material to bookmark, but then when someone actually clicks the link to the incriminating quote, there will be no intelligible context to be found!




    Last edited by Barry; 09-01-2013 at 05:15 AM. Reason: add more smilies
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  9. #369
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Ah!

    It's a new package install.

    But, I'm very concerned about next March, if they do survive.

    I'm plan to wait for winter before removing supers. I prefer to wait for them to cluster.

    However, I'm not looking forward to dealing with such a large number of bees.

    I've got the equipment and protection, but it's a management issue that concerns me.

    My goal is to have survival stock, and some feed.

    I really don't want to spread out to a dozen colonies again, because that was too time consuming for my own needs.

    The colony I'm worried about can become a swarm issue, if you know what I mean.

  10. #370
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Ah!

    It's a new package install.

    But, I'm very concerned about next March, if they do survive.

    I'm plan to wait for winter before removing supers. I prefer to wait for them to cluster.

    However, I'm not looking forward to dealing with such a large number of bees.

    I've got the equipment and protection, but it's a management issue that concerns me.

    My goal is to have survival stock, and some feed.

    I really don't want to spread out to a dozen colonies again, because that was too time consuming for my own needs.

    The colony I'm worried about can become a swarm issue, if you know what I mean.

    Correct on the last part and still a slight possibility.

  11. #371
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    I'm just watching this whole charade in disbelief!

    OT seems to be a pretty smart guy, but I simply can't figure out why he continues to engage WLC.

    And as I tried to point out in an earlier thread, it is imperative for a good salesman to be a believer in the superiority of his own product, but being 'cocky' rarely gets the desired result. And promising future cockiness is just bass-ackwards!



    There is plenty of material to bookmark, but then when someone actually clicks the link to the incriminating quote, there will be no intelligible context to be found!


    You can disbelieve and say whatever you desire. Results are speaking for themself, according to the number of times my name comes up in 37 different threads that I DID NOT put there. Archive away.....
    Last edited by Barry; 09-01-2013 at 05:19 AM.

  12. #372
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    no intelligible context to be found!
    Wasn't learning anything, took a break, came back and re-read the last few pages, decided this was the truest statement made.

    Giving up on it.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #373
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    May 2013
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    I believe this thread needs a picture book.

  14. #374
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    May 2010
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    532

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    It's the Tim and WLC show. nudge nudge wink wink if you know what I mean

    Geez give us a break

    What a waste of space, and hasn't this thread gone way off topic.

  15. #375
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,104

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    I don't understand this complaint about TF beekeepers.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  16. #376
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Someone wanted to use commercials/migratory pollinators as a standard for success.

    I felt that it wasn't appropriate for a number of reasons as stated above.

  17. #377
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Give me the right amount of money to spend on equipment, protein patties, syrup and queens and I'll go from 500 to 1,000 colonies next Spring before heading North for apple pollination.
    So what is the right amount of money? When do you need it by? What do I get out of it?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #378
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    This is the cockiness that turns me off when it comes to TF. No one in TF has the history to support them, yet they talk like they do. I'm glad it's going well for you so far. The true test has yet to play out.
    Why does my neighbor down the road that does $5-10 million in honey sales according to manta.com asking me how to keep bees?????

  19. #379
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    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    1,256

    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I don't understand this complaint about TF beekeepers.
    Okay, okay. I created a monster.

    Folks can complain that quite a few TF beekeepers are cocky, and that complaint I do understand. But I don't mind, because it's a complaint against a personality type, and not an entire approach to beekeeping. There are cocky conventional beekeepers too.

    I suspect that Tim's cockiness is something that developed at least in part because he's taken a lot of crappola from conventional beekeepers over the course of developing his methods, especially back when he was losing most of his hives every winter. Here he is now with a few hundred highly productive hives, with unusually high survival rates, and folks are still telling him that Real Soon Now he's going to discover that he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

    It takes a certain amount of cockiness to buck the tide, and if you ave the right personality type, you can use the scorn of those around you to power your urge to excel. For example, I've been a sailor for almost 40 years, One day it occurred to me that I'd never seen a particular kind of boat. I started asking questions about its feasibility in various online boat forums, and got mostly scorn. If I hadn't been a sort of cocky person, I have accepted the common wisdom that a boat like the one I wanted wasn't going to be a good boat, and even if it was, no one would want to build one. I used that negativity to power through the process of building and testing the prototype. I continued to use it to make myself draw salable plans for the boat. Now there are many sisterships sailing around the world.

    It would never have happened, had I not been the kind of person who can turn criticism into energy.

  20. #380
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    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Someone wanted to use commercials/migratory pollinators as a standard for success.

    I felt that it wasn't appropriate for a number of reasons as stated above.
    I do not know if I would call them a standard, but they are the most economically stable group of "Bee Professionals? They also own most of the bees in this country.

    It may simply be that if a TF commercial can make it as a full migratory, the he can make it anywhere. The TF notion then becomes truly sanctioned.... anointed??
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

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