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  1. #321
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Could you clarify the question? You referring to yourself? I know nothing of your bees.

    You are saying you use Tims method?

    Or you mean your bees? Tims bees? Beeweaver bees? What?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #322
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    I know both.

    Tim, how many folks do you have using you methods?
    In my immediate area 8-9 last winter out of 150ish. Hard telling now after comparing winter losses. Southern Indiana atleast a dozen. Northern Jersey-a lot. One guy Ed was already close to what I was doing, just wasn't supering soon enough.
    Hard telling how many in the state. I'm pretty vocal at both State meetings. The creator of the IBA just lives 5 miles from me. 2011 he lost 50%. Every time he drives into town, he drives by a 6 year Zero loss yard. As he's picking up his deadouts in the spring I'm supering up. How many years would you have to see that before you stop arguing the set paradigm of beehaving. I don't care if you been keeping bees for 60 years. Your's are dead.

  3. #323
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    I have.... All the ones I personally know are in big troubles.
    I don't mind hearing Tim talking up what he is doing, I find it thought provoking but the above statement says he hasnt delved into the economics of very many commercials. I could tell a lot of stories but it isn't my nature to brag. Plan on having your own extracting setup any time soon Tim?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #324
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I don't mind hearing Tim talking up what he is doing, I find it thought provoking but the above statement says he hasnt delved into the economics of very many commercials. I could tell a lot of stories but it isn't my nature to brag. Plan on having your own extracting setup any time soon Tim?
    I'm fine at the moment, except the 33 frame extractor doesn't keep up well with the Cowen decapper.

  5. #325
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    A 33 frame extractor? How does that keep up with world record honey production from 150 hives?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #326
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    I'm fine at the moment, except the 33 frame extractor doesn't keep up well with the Cowen decapper.
    Ha ha. I'll bet not. At a frame every 4 seconds that gives you about a minute of extracting time assuming you can change a load in a minute. Get your order in early with Cowens, last I heard they were about 3 months out on extracting systems. Must be a few folks making money out there somewhere. . Want to make a wager as to how many are treatment free?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #327
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    North Liberty, IN
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I'm trying it.

    Had some hives set up the Tim Ives way for several months now. Just, I don't mess with anything smaller than deeps, all gear is deep. Don't think Tim would see that as an issue though.

    Call me anything, but not closeminded.
    Deeps past 6 high...yuck, ouch, Ughh...lol

  8. #328
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Ha ha. I'll bet not. At a frame every 4 seconds that gives you about a minute of extracting time assuming you can change a load in a minute. Get your order in early with Cowens, last I heard they were about 3 months out on extracting systems. Must be a few folks making money out there somewhere. . Want to make a wager as to how many are treatment free?
    I bet I can find something at bank auction somewhere.

  9. #329
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Deeps past 6 high...yuck, ouch, Ughh...lol
    Tim I'm quite used to hives higher than me. These days I have to get someone to help me remove the honey though I just can't lift a full deep over my head any more. Still faster than messing with piddly sized 3/4 stuff though I'd rather quit than waste time on that.

    Looking forward to see how the Tim Ives ones I've got will compare.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  10. #330
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Every time he drives into town, he drives by a 6 year Zero loss yard.
    Six years Tim? How many years do you consider yourself commercial? Like Roland said, lets let time be the judge of "success". You're just starting out.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #331
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    I bet I can find something at bank auction somewhere.
    Keep us updated Tim and I wish you all the best.....really. I don't wish ill will on anyone, you will learn eventually that beekeeping has a lot of unexpected twists and turns. I won't presume to understand the economics of your business if you don't presume to know mime.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #332
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    OT:

    I'm a Biologist by training. and I know a different phenotype when I see one.

    The whole spirit of what Tim and other TFBers are doing really does depend on bees that are remarkably different than the fully domesticated stock that most folks are used to dealing with.

    I think that McCarty did a good job of describing the characteristics of 'feral' stock.

    However, if you're not starting out with those type of bees, which aren't like the kind of bees that most folks would tolerate, then I'm convinced that the TF tower hive method won't work.

    Do you have bees that you would say don't look domesticated when you start pulling frames?

    That's what it's like.

  13. #333
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Six years Tim? How many years do you consider yourself commercial? Like Roland said, lets let time be the judge of "success". You're just starting out.
    And how many ZERO loss yards do YOU have in that time period????

  14. #334
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Six years Tim? How many years do you consider yourself commercial? Like Roland said, lets let time be the judge of "success". You're just starting out.
    When you can show me bees that are stronger, then you can put your 2 cents in......

  15. #335
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    And how many ZERO loss yards do YOU have in that time period????
    Most of them.

    You admit to an 8% annual loss which is considerably higher than mine. How many hives do you have per yard? 8% x's six years equals your yards must be pretty small to have many with no losses over the time frame.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #336
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Most of them.

    You admit to an 8% annual loss which is considerably higher than mine. How many hives do you have per yard? 8% x's six years equals your yards must be pretty small to have many with no losses over the time frame.
    Losses are occuring on the 40 count yards.

  17. #337
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    And how many ZERO loss yards do YOU have in that time period????
    Six years Tim. Guys like Roland and Jim have been in it for generations.
    Regards, Barry

  18. #338
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    I'm a Biologist by training. and I know a different phenotype when I see one.

    The whole spirit of what Tim and other TFBers are doing really does depend on bees that are remarkably different than the fully domesticated stock that most folks are used to dealing with.

    Do you have bees that you would say don't look domesticated when you start pulling frames?

    That's what it's like.
    No disrespect to your claimed biology training, but I was asking for clarification on your question before I could answer it. Frankly, didn't know what you were talking about.

    Yes the makeup of Tims bees would be interesting.

    Bees that don't look domesticated? Don't know what you mean or if such a bee exists. Perhaps you mean flighty? Africanised? Please elucidate.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #339
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Jim:

    Come on already.

    You can't compare yellow dent #2 corn to a hedge bet like bee pollination.

    You're just spreading you're risk like a good businessman should.

    But you know something, if they gave the same support to Honeybee pollination like they did to dent corn, it would be a completely different situation.

  20. #340
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    Default Re: I don't understand this complaint about treatment free beekeepers

    Your right about one thing Barry, time does keep telling.

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