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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    93

    Default Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    Why are the end bars on frames designed to touch together each other half way down then open to a bee space?
    Keep on keepin' bees

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,237

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    If they touched all the way down the bees would glue them together, and they would be impossible to get apart; I think they are called "hoffman style" this way they are spaced at the top and bee movement is not restricted at the bottom.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    I design and build my own frames, and I do not make them as you describe, but the same width from top to bottom.

    Mine do not become "glued" together by propolis, as is often considered the reason others construct them with the varying width's (narrowing towards the bottom). Also, mine "slap together" much less during transport; are easier to replace a frame without slicing bees between the End Bars; and are much easier to construct.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Richland Iowa USA
    Posts
    189

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    the design is meant to maintain the correct space, and as mentioned, the bottoms open up so they dont get glued together all the way down.. I tried leaving them straight, and it worked OK for a while... but once they start getting glued up it becomes harder and harder to get them apart, and THEN get them back together again.
    www.outyard.weebly.com 8 yrs aiding 40+ hives 3 yrs personal. 40+ of my own now (T, TF Goal) Zone 5a

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    Perhaps it is a matter of regional propolis differences. Here, few colonies collect much propolis, and it is generally not excessively tacky.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    So my understanding is that the only reason the side bars touch like that is for frame spacing. Is the spacing part of the bar being half way down the bar an arbitrary design? I am going to build frames for a hive design I am working with. As long as I have some method of proper spacing, it doesn't matter if that method is "the top half of the bars touching." True statement?
    Keep on keepin' bees

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    Actually, you were correct, the first time, calling them, End Bars. Since frames have no "Side Bars", since the sides of the frames is where the face of the honeycomb is. Where I come from, "side bar" is a legal term.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,555

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    There are some frames built by some beekeepers that have end bars with a similar width to the top bars, but are spaced properly by protruding nails, or screws, or in one case, "golf shoe spikes".

    See this thread for more:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ghlight=spikes
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,539

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    I made some frames without the cut-away. Won't be doing that again, my bees LOVE propolis and have them glued up pretty good. Hoffman frames work very well, and since I don't transport hives at the moment, they won't slap around unless I drop a box, at which point I don't think that will be my major concern.

    Straight end bars won't be a big problem if you have low amounts of propolis, but the feral bees my brother and I have here in Indiana collect huge amounts, I have to scrap even Hoffman frames by the end of the summer to get them all spaced correctly. My brother's bees glue the frames in really well, we have broken a couple of inner covers trying to get them off. Finally make some with 1/2" plywood so we could remove them intact.

    Peter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,438

    Default Re: Why the end bars on frames are built like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Honey Girl's Boy View Post
    Why are the end bars on frames designed to touch together each other half way down then open to a bee space?
    When jamming them back in......... the current design allows the benefit of a v shape with the stability of a rectangle. Easier to insert but not flopping all over the place when in place. The shape and curve of the transition is the key to an effective Jam. Most of the time this is not a big deal but if you are trying to "overload" the boxes with frames on their first draw to reduce bridges this little feature can be just the little extra help needed to "get them to fit"

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