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  1. #1
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    Default Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    .

    www.savebeesflorida.com (Honeybee removals and top bar hives)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Ah, this should be in the swarm/cut out forum, unless you care to post something that ties it to this forum.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Ah, this should be in the swarm/cut out forum, unless you care to post something that ties it to this forum.
    Barry, the guy doing the cut-out is constantly talking about the bees being there treatment-free for fifty years.

    He didn't even see any mites.

    I'm confused as to how that doesn't pertain to this forum on treatment-free bee keeping?
    www.savebeesflorida.com (Honeybee removals and top bar hives)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    So what's the point? What are you wanting us to take away from this video?
    Regards, Barry

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Cutouts are a good source of treatment free bees.

    What else?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    We should be keeping our bees inside wall structures?
    Regards, Barry

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    This is the 'Holy Grail' of treatment free bee cutouts.

    It's got human interest.

    You could easily hire a home remodeler to fix it, and put in some new windows while they're at it.

    I hope that PatBeek paid cash for them.

    If not, do it man.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    This is the 'Holy Grail' of treatment free bee cutouts.

    It's got human interest.

    You could easily hire a home remodeler to fix it, and put in some new windows while they're at it.

    I hope that PatBeek paid cash for them.

    If not, do it man.
    I wish I could take credit for getting those bees, but that wasn't me.

    I would say that those bees are a definite indicator that bees do not need treatments.

    But I also realize that the present state of industrial bee keeping has almost no resemblance to those bees living in that wall.

    Perhaps the industry can move closer to the natural model in the future before everything collapses? Because I know bees can't survive too long by being fed sugar syrup that's laced with antibiotics and stuff like that. That cycle cannot continue with good results.
    www.savebeesflorida.com (Honeybee removals and top bar hives)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Well, you're in the right place.

    However, since you do know of that find, see if the beekeeper that has them will sell you their descendants.

    It's a known pedigree.

  10. #10
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    Whitmell, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Bees and mites have been around since creation. So has the beetle. Nothin new under the sun.

    I know of a black walnut tree that has had them in it for atleast 30. I know where 5 fully functional and evidently healthy colonies are that are in house walls. They've been there for atleast 20 years on one and 30ish to 40 on the other ones.

    I cutout three colonies in an old abandoned house back in march that were probably there in some form for decades. one had nearly a full board of siding gone exposing the colony/combs to the weather near the top of the hive. they wintered just fine and were exploding with bees in march.

    My great grandaddy's house had bees in it for atleast 30 years until I cut them out last year. My grandaddy took honey out of the wall on that one probably around 1987ish. I was with him when he did.

    So far as I know. Nobody snuck mite strips and beetle traps in these hives in the last decades.
    Don't laugh it's paid for. -- Manure draws more flies than honey.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Took out a monster hive this spring....the owner claimed they had been there 5-10 years. I thought wow....treatment free....and they certainly were. However, he also said some years they would leave for a while, and then come back. Point is hives die...swarms move in. Were these bees in the video, truly from 50 years of the same lineage?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Let's not forget the microbiota hypothesis.

    It's the stuff growing on the comb that can be important.

    That's what treatments might be destroying.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Let's not forget the microbiota hypothesis.

    It's the stuff growing on the comb that can be important.

    That's what treatments might be destroying.

    www.savebeesflorida.com (Honeybee removals and top bar hives)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    There are a lot of assumptions already being made. The stuff growing on the comb? The comb the grandfather would cut out every year and melt on his stove? 50 years goes quite a ways before varroa. No one can say how many times the bees died or swarmed and a new colony moved in. Likely. So now take these bees out of the wall and hive them. You think they will live even 20 years? You might n ot be able to take a colony like this and expect to see the same results in a Lang hive.
    Regards, Barry

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Barry:

    I understand your point.

    However, until I actually tested different honeys from around the world by using them to inoculate syrup and milk, no one would have believed that they would have had differing properties. Some demonstrated homo lacto fermentation, others hetero (gas!).

    Even the honey from a cutout could have value as an inoculate.

    It's alive!.

    Everything from this kind of a cutout is important to TFB.

    We have a federal mandate to develop resistant stocks of Honeybees.

    Where do you think they're going to come from?

    Why aren't we supporting the individuals doing these cutouts, trapouts, and swarm removals as true Conservationists?

    In my opinion, they're the most likely source of resistant stock that we can find. Contact them, give them your number, and your price.

    Especially if you're a TFBer.

    They belong here on the TFB forum.

    WLC.

  16. #16
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph3 View Post
    Bees and mites have been around since creation. So has the beetle. Nothin new under the sun.

    I know of a black walnut tree that has had them in it for atleast 30. I know where 5 fully functional and evidently healthy colonies are that are in house walls. They've been there for atleast 20 years on one and 30ish to 40 on the other ones.

    I cutout three colonies in an old abandoned house back in march that were probably there in some form for decades. one had nearly a full board of siding gone exposing the colony/combs to the weather near the top of the hive. they wintered just fine and were exploding with bees in march.

    My great grandaddy's house had bees in it for atleast 30 years until I cut them out last year. My grandaddy took honey out of the wall on that one probably around 1987ish. I was with him when he did.

    So far as I know. Nobody snuck mite strips and beetle traps in these hives in the last decades.
    Varroa mites have not been on Apis mellifera since creation, whenever that was.

    Honey bees have not been living in the wall of that house for 50 years continuously. That doesn't happen. Not even befor varroa got to the US. Y'all don't know nuttin' 'bout bees.

    Any colony that survives in a tree or the wall of a house swarms more often than those in boxes managed by beekeepers. That gives them a brood break which cuts back on varroa infestation. They also all died out when varroa first arrived or came thru an area.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 08-21-2013 at 07:56 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    I disagree with the opposition speaker 100%

    I demand that we recognize the contributions of these true conservationists to treatment free beekeeping.

    WLC.

  18. #18
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    Whitmell, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingstoneboy View Post
    Took out a monster hive this spring....the owner claimed they had been there 5-10 years. I thought wow....treatment free....and they certainly were. However, he also said some years they would leave for a while, and then come back. Point is hives die...swarms move in. Were these bees in the video, truly from 50 years of the same lineage?
    It's doubtful they are exactly descendant from the queen that was in there 50 years ago. That may be the point that some people take but I don't. The issue is the cavity has maintained bees relatively consistently that long.

    They've just managed to do all the things a bee keeper should keep an eye on and possibly do, but they've done it all on their own.

    Hives get over thrown at times and the queen gets replaced by a swarm queen. I've seen it twice so no tellin how many times it happens and people never know. Because all you see is bees going in and out of a hole.

    If somebody had about 10 hives spaced moderately apart and did nothing to them but maintain the woodenware. They could probably replicate this. When the strong ones swarm in the spring they would take over and clean out the weak and history repeats.
    Don't laugh it's paid for. -- Manure draws more flies than honey.

  19. #19
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    To what purpose? To have bees? If all you want to do is have bees, not do the keepiong that keeping bees is all about, then leave it to the environment/Mother Nature to keep the bees in your area. People keep bees in boxes to interact w/ them. To have them for their own benefits, just like people have sheep or cattle.

    I don't know if there is anything special about the bees in that house. No one should assume there is or isn't. Just because they occupy the same cavity that other bees have before means little about them themselves. Mostly it means that it is an attractive location. One that bees prefer. Shucks, there is plenty there to attract a new swarm.

    I have bees in the maple tree in my front yard and bees in the wall of my house. Those cavities have been occupied many years since I have lived here. Maybe before I lived here. But I know where the current residents came from. I saw the swarm move in. I know how many years the have been vacant.

    If you find a colony in the side of a house cut them out and see what they do for you. But don't get blown away by the fact that bees have occupied a space for many years. It doesn't necessarily mean as much as you might think.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #20
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    Flora,IL
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    Default Re: Fifty years in house - treatment-free (This isn't supposed to be possible)

    Maybe heating one side of the hive all winter is the trick...

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