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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Thanks to both of you, all the mating nucs shown here are nice, I may have to look into building some.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I go to Dadants in Paris TX. And get my frames and extra end bars $11 or $12 per bundle of 100

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I order the standard deep frames, unassembled from Mann Lake, and order extra end bars. Cut the top bar to 9 1/4", bottom bar to 8".
    With a 3/4" divider in a 10 or 8 frame deep, 9 1/4" top bar fits perfectly.



    There are lots of ways to make mini frames that are easier and cheaper..But in the long run, having the sturdy end bars and bottom bar are nice.
    Last edited by Lauri; 12-25-2013 at 09:09 AM.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I'm in the process of building 50 mating nucs, so I can get cool like Lauri and Micheal Palmer. My forum post next year will be... How I killed 50 mating nucs on mini frames. (grins)
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I am cutting my rite cell, 10 at a time on my miter saw. 2/3 installed in my standard frames and the other 1/3 for the half sized deeps frames. I glue in a small wood skewer in the top bar grove to keep foundation centered and give the bees a guide to start the foundationless part of the comb.





    This is how it looks when they work the frames





    I'll likley get more drones with frames made this way. But since I raise queens, that is an added bonus in addition to stretching the foundation costs. There are a lot of feed stores around the brood area too. Might be a better frame combo for overwintering.
    A person can have the option of cutting out drone comb or cutting out honey comb from this type of frame.
    Last edited by Lauri; 12-26-2013 at 08:51 AM.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I feel your pain on making too many frames in one sitting... I cut 200 mini frames last night.... I'm going to have to figure out a better way... Too many slides across the table saw/table router for my tastes...

    But on the plus side, there are now 200 mating nuc frames piled up in my garage floor.. (LOL)

    Need more! *grins*
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Just think about all the money your saving cuting out your own

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Kevin, I make 6 passes over the router blades for each frame, But it goes pretty fast if you are organized. Some of the cuts can be several parts at a time in one swipe. I store the cut and milled parts in big rubbermaid type containers until I assemble them. Just getting them cut and ready for assembly is 80% of the time consuming work. I assemble enough to fill my mating nucs and have and extra 500 ready and waiting. If I need them in summer, I can assemble some in a flash. As long as the parts are already milled.

    Here are 500 half sized deep frames..top bars and bottom bars.





    Left side, my cut and milled end, right side, factory end



    You could do this too. If prices continue to rise I may make my mini frames like this with my own top bars. I'll make a few of these and try them out this year. See if they work like I want. No shoulder for frame spacing, but that's not a big deal. I'm sure I'll come up with something to modify that.



    I drilled a hole, glue and tap in a wood skewer. It was the perfect size-no trimming. Corn Dog food grade stick. About $2.75 for 100 pack. Although it is surprisingly rigid, there is No real strength, just a guide for them to end comb and hopefully not attach it to the side of the nuc.

    Last edited by Lauri; 01-03-2014 at 09:03 AM.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I'd have to think about my steps, but I know I have room for improvement from a speed/repeatability standpoint.

    I made a sled from my tablesaw. I can place 5+ top bars and 10+ bottom bars to be cut to the 9.25/8"...

    So to make 200 frames from the 100 frames I ordered... That was 20 slides for the tops and 10 slides for the bottoms. That's not to bad.

    The top bar took the most time on the router table.. I biggest router bit that I had was 3/4". So I had to do 4 passes for each top bar to get the part that rests on the shelf. Cutting all the bars to 3/4" then adjusting the fence and cutting them all to the 1" mark.. I might have been faster to just set up a guard and shove the frames into the router for the 1" depth cut...

    Then I did 3 cuts for the end bars to attach to the top, 2 for the sides and one for the bottom. The bottom cut was just to clean them up and make them pretty. I could do multiple parts in a pass, but I think I might look at making a sled for the router table also. I'm not 100% happy with the repeatability of holding the bars to my miter slide.

    The bottom bars were easy. I'd grab 5+ at a time... cut, spin, cut, flip, cut, spin, cut.. and done..

    I'm just thinking down the road if I need to make a few thousand frames... LOL. Or if I make them from scratch vs re-purposing mann lakes... On the plus side, I now have enough frames for 50 new mating mini-nucs...

    But, I'd like to be running 400 plus.

    Someday..
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Wood cut for 350 mini nucs bought 700 commercial 6 1/4" frames reworked to 9.25 long top bars made 1400 frames
    With 8 passes per frame = 11,200 passes





    My mini nuc's

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Velbert! You're a busy guy! Nice job Mr.
    Queen rearing in high gear...I guess I'd better get busy too

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Yea, I need to get back in the shop, but it's currently 1 degrees F outside... LOL

    Think I'll stay in on the couch until this nonsense passes.. *grins*
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Thanks Lauri,it likes you have been very busy too! doing a great job on keeping very nice strong colony's
    I am all ready for spring to get here.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    A little update on this thread. The mating nucs are overwintering wonderfully. I really liked them in the single deeps with a sugar block directly above the colonies on the top bars.
    Here are some slight changes I am making for next years batch.

    The hive bodies were perfect. Although as careful as I am, I am still getting some shrinkage on the divider, so instead of straight edge flush, the new models are left about a strong 1/16" high to allow for shrinkage.

    Here are the photos of how they are constructed:
    Bottom of the 10 frame deep.



    Plywood bottom stapled on , staple the center divider well.



    Pine center divider left high to allow for shrinkage:



    You can see these double each have a separate screened inner cover, flipped to accommodate sugar block. These worked great, but on a single deep with out separate upper box's, the skinny divider didn't have the best positive closure with two inner covers. I am making one inner cover for a better center barrier for the singles.



    New single inner cover



    The center 3/4" x 1 is NOT stapled in. Nether is the 3/4x3" on the opposite side. These are cut very tight, but can float to assure a snug closure no matter what the center divider in the box does. If it is high, the inner cover divider moves with it. If it is low, I can push the inner cover down to fit snug.



    Ready for another sugar block.



    When they are done with the blocks I'll flip over the inner cover to reduce space on top the frames. Give them back their upper entrance, which when flipped was used just for winter ventilation.



    My weather was pretty normal with a few bouts of 0 temps with wind chill. Average winter temps around here are 30-40. Although insulated on all four sides and the lid, they have significant air gaps. The rigid insulation was more of a wind break than warmth retention.

    Velbert, How are you nucs faring?

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Laurie, the reality of wood and your climate is you are going to have that shrinkage and then expansion. A coupel of solutions.

    1. select wood with grain that will allow the least shrinkage. PM me for details or search how wood expands and contracts.

    2. select varieties of wood with lower expansion ratios.

    3. this is the easiest. use plywood for your dividers.

    As for my nucs, all are doing well. some ready to be moved to full size equipment. two are struggling. one of those is looking like they will attempt a come back. I will give the other some assistance in the next few days. I may have to wait until this weekend to have enough warm part of the day to work in. Temps are still hitting high 50's low 60's for us.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Got to get into all of them (60/70 degrees) and all are brooding fed about 80% of them and they were bring in very small loads of a brownish yellows pollen.



    My vsh Pol-line Breeder Queen from Vpqueens they wintered in 3 mediums she's is brooding in the bottom 2 boxes
    The top box with stores
    Last edited by Velbert; 02-19-2014 at 06:11 AM.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    I feel your pain on making too many frames in one sitting... I cut 200 mini frames last night.... I'm going to have to figure out a better way... Too many slides across the table saw/table router for my tastes...

    But on the plus side, there are now 200 mating nuc frames piled up in my garage floor.. (LOL)

    Need more! *grins*


    I have yet to figure out a good way to make fraems. a lot of cuts are a lot of cuts no mater what order you do them in. This year we are making about 850 of them. That justified some fairly drastic improvements in our methods.

    1. I cut a 2X4 or 2X6 to length.

    2. I then plane it to the correct thickness for the width of an end bar.

    3. using a jig that holds the block on end over a dado blade. I then cut the notches both top and bottom in the exact center of this block.

    4. I then set the blade of my jointer (purchased it to make these frames) to that it takes out a 1/8th inch bite I then set a stop block and run the 2X4 over it to make the passage in the lower portion of the end bar.

    What I end up with is a single block that is entirely formed into the shape of an end bar. It is just 3.5 or 5.5 inches thick. I then slice off 3/8 inch thick and bars on my radial arm saw from these blocks. If I got in the shop jigs already made and just made bars I believe I could l have made all 1700 end bars in a single day.

    I get 7 end bars per 2X4. So that is a little more than 100 blocks to make up and they go very quickly. It cost me all of $100 to get that jointer. I found it on Craigs list. Best thing that has happened to my frame making. I now am looking for a thickness planer so I can get better consistency in the thickness of the blocks.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    I know a guy who has home made frames w/out any real joints. All the parts butt up against each other and are nailed together. I believe that the frames are wired. These are medium depth frames in his honey supers.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    Lauri i thiink if i can work it in i want to cut me out
    about 150 deep 4 frame mating nucs just for wintering them in there will be more honey in the deeper frames when they cluster for winter i do think they will winter better and just winter in 1 single Deep

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: How I plan on overwintering 40 mating nucs on mini frames

    This is my second year wintering nucs in a 5 frame nuc. about half of those also had a 5 frame medium of honey over them. None of them ever have enough honey to make it to spring. Randy Oliver wrote an article last year that may explain why. basically that is because a small colony really never gives up trying to build up and goes through more stores as a result. I always keep sugar on all nucs. even with that I have one nuc with very little population. no brood no stores. just 5 frames of completely empty comb. I am giving the sugar water as often as I can at this point. This is in complete contradiction to my ideology that you do not expend the additional energy and resources on the weak. I justify the decision by saying this nuc was weak going into winter. Keeping it at all was a choice to spend the time and resources. Plus I can afford to so why not.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

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