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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    I thought that I asked a relevant question?

    I can see that you learn quickly.

    Honestly, do you have an opinion on the EPA label and the neonic dialogue?

    How has it been changed? Why do you think they did it?

    WLC.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    "Suppress the dissenters. Sounds eerily authoritarian."

    That's 'party' politics.
    One sided discourse is the direct opposite of party politics.

    And if you don't believe me, your opinion is in the minority. Or, fringe, should we say.
    Try it. What could happen?

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    O.K. :

    But what's your opinion about the new neonic labels?

    Same question as Radarsidetrack.

    As for party politics, I do understand.

    Where do you think the new label came from? A sudden change of heart?

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    O.K. :

    But what's your opinion about the new neonic labels?
    Honestly, I don't know enough to make an educated opinion about neo-nics. I just get jittery when "scientific consensus" and "public opinion" are used as counter arguments on any issue. It makes for poorly thought out legislation with unintended consequences out the ying-yang.
    Try it. What could happen?

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    In terms of unintended consequences, do you mean that farmers are now holding the bag for applicator error?

    I don't think that was unintended.

    Am I the only one who understands this?

    Why am I even here?

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Why am I even here?
    Because you enjoy being here. Why else?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Joy isn't the word I would use.

    Masochistic is more appropriate.

    But, it's like the label didn't happen here?

    Maybe I'm in a county where there is no EPA, or something?

    It's gotta be trauma, or shock, or amnesia maybe. In a group, yet.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    It appears to be a case where the boy cried "wolf" too many times. The audience is gone.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    You're calling me 'boy' on a thread entitled, "Why/how I know the neonic guys are wrong"?

    What was it? More swarms?

    Meanwhile, there is no discussion about the new labels.

    This isn't discourse on a forum.

    It's an excuse.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    WLC,

    I'm not sure how many insecticide labels that you have read, but at least 90% of the ones that I've read over the years have honey bee warnings. I just don't see the big impact (or big win) that this change is going to have. A lot of us have lost bees to the spraying of insecticides and I'm pretty sure that there was a warning about honey bees on every label.
    Bruce

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    [QUOTE=WLC;988011]
    rbees:
    All that I can tell you is that the new neonic label graphic said, "The science says that there are many causes for a decline in pollinator health, including pesticide exposure. EPA's new label will help protect pollinators."
    I bet dollars to doughnuts all the carbamate and organophosphate pesticides pretty much have the same EPA warning to toxicity to bees as neo-nics. Just because the EPA issued a warning in no way indicated neo-nics are the root cause of CCD.

    A question for you...a simple yes or no will do.

    Say neo-nics were never used. Do you believe that CCD would be an issue?



    That's the usual scientific consensus statement.

    I don't think that the other stuff is really relevant, but I do get your point.
    Just so there's no misunderstanding...what do you think my point is? I'm not trying to be snarky here

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Yes.
    Science is flawed.

    I did see in the announcements that the new label was for specific products.

    I don't know if they will be applied to other pesticides as well.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    beedeetee:

    I'm saying that the new labels make a debate about whether or not neonics harm bees moot.

    The labels aren't some kind of bee shield.

    But, the NPDF and others are dealing with the pesticide/bee loss issue.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    It appears to be a case where the boy cried "wolf" too many times. The audience is gone.
    maybe you can explain that mindless remark...


    This thread is proof that not all beekeepers are smart. Jeez what a bummer.

    I think you all are being very naive.

    Yes there had been some labels with bee warnings, maybe words so small no one could see them, and no one followed them.

    Now maybe with awareness and large labels and possible punishment for not following the instructions may change something.
    LOOK AGAIN AT THE STUDY Jim Lyon posted.
    These chems might not kill the hive out right and you might think oh no what did i do wrong. they make for weaker hives in general.

    30 years ago would all you guys have been saying they were wrong about DDT??? i mean get serious its not like a small hippy group making false claims this is huge and very real.

    remember this is not about just one little beekeeper, its about millions of bee hives and billions of people.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    ""suppressing the fringe." You are heading down a very ugly path, not that I believe it's remotely possible. If we don't like what some have to say, we figure out ways to "suppress them." "

    I'd like to know where's his moral authority in making that remark.

    He gave that up when he failed to protect my rights as a member against personal attacks, and my rights as a human being when he led a cadre bent on violating my privacy.

    The fact is, I know what it feels like to be suppressed. But, I was talking about the legal/civil kind.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    30 years ago would all you guys have been saying they were wrong about DDT???
    MN, I think what this Thread shows is that many beekeepers are just as concerned about the alternative, maybe more so. Many of us are not jumping on a band wagon. We don't want to see bees killed and people inconvenienced, but what is the alternative? What we had before? Something newer? Nothing at all?

    We don't live in a vacuum, so what do you see as a solution to systemics versus other types of pesticides which modern agriculture depends on to provide the food we all eat?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    MNbees:

    It is big. I'm also trying to convince others that they need to act in their own best interests. Especially at this time.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Use different words. No one can hear you.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    30 years ago would all you guys have been saying they were wrong about DDT??? .
    I wish someone would have.

    http://rachelwaswrong.org/

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    sqkcrk:

    I was speaking generally.

    "Many of us are not jumping on a band wagon."

    So you voted against supporting the NPDF?

    My mistake. I thought that you were a party to the lawsuit.

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