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  1. #1
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    May 2009
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    Default Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    I have listened to many of the arguments off Neonics and Imiclorpids and GMO from all sorts of sources, seems most of them live in NY, Oregon, or CA.

    Well I don't I live in the MIDDLE of the area with the HIGHEST combination of the 3 pesticides. But whats really hit me yesterday was how foolish the claims are. And heres why. The town I live in is right at 3 square miles of surface area. 5000 people. Yesterday I did another cutout for the electric company. Its my 5th this year for the city. All of them good strong typical hives. But keep in mind, These cutouts are only in trees that threaten power lines. Yard trees are not included. and I am positively aware of at least 3 other wild hives in the same area. which makes 8 in a 3 square mile area, THAT I KNOW OF. That is better than 2 colonies per square mile of FERAL bees


    Just useing that number there are around 120,000 feral hives statewide. not counting the roughly 150k in domestic colonies est. to be in the state.
    2 feral colonies per square mile IN TOWN, in the area of the highest neonics in the world...

    And so far I have been to Bee meetings in most of southern IL at least once.... so far there has not been a single case of CCD reported.
    Bees are fine and healthy.... and more than 2 feral hives per square mile is FINE..... its all the forage they can handle in this part of the country. 80% monoculture will not support more bees than that.

  2. #2
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    May 2013
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    Northfield,MN
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    those are not feral bees. they are swarms from other managed bee hives. and just because they seem fine and healthy right now does not mean much.
    I can tell you first hand that the bees most definitely are effected by these neonics just as they have been by all the chems used in the past many years. neonics just stay around longer and the systemic ones are around and available for poisoning for a few months.
    The reason you are not seeing the effects this year is because of the ample amount of rain that has been falling.
    120k feral hives in IL, ha that's a laugh. those hives will parish from mites soon enough.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2012
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    King County, Washington
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    120k feral hives in IL, ha that's a laugh. those hives will parish from mites soon enough.
    by your own admission.. not from neonics...

  4. #4
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    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    MNbees; could you please clarify between feral bees and swarms from other managed hives? how do you tell the difference?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    He just ask them!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    The scientific consensus is that pesticide exposure is a contributing factor to Honeybee losses.

    So, the OP's post represents a minority viewpoint.

    With major Beekeeping organizations and others currently suing the EPA, that minority viewpoint is not in my own best interests.

    I would also say that it's not in the best interests of U.S. beekeepers or of the public.

    I can't find a good reason for a U.S. beekeeper to make such an opinion known in at this time while representatives of large numbers of beekeepers are locked in a conflict with the EPA over neonicotinoids.

    Why speak out against your own best interests?

    WLC.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Why speak out against your own best interests?

    WLC.
    The entire "scientific community" also knew that...

    Blacks were intellectually inferior...

    Homosexuality was a mental disorder...

    Ice pick lobotomies was good medicine..

    and humans are to blame for the ice caps melting.

    My point is we have no clue why CCD is prevalent and I'm not about to jump on a bandwagon that will legislate us to death.

    Are Neonics to blame...o.k. fine...Show me the evidence.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    The EPA is saying that neonics are a contributing factor in colony losses.

    (I don't think that they had anything to do with the above low points in science.)

    Swarms could simply be a sign that thee are a lot of 'swarmy bee' genetics around.
    Or, worse, there are plenty of bees absconding from contaminated hives.

    I wouldn't say that it's a sign that 'the coast is clear', or not.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    The scientific consensus is that pesticide exposure is a contributing factor to Honeybee losses.

    So, the OP's post represents a minority viewpoint.

    WLC.
    Consensus does not equal science.

    Scientists once agreed that the Earth was flat.

    "There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period."

    http://eaglerising.com/677/michael-c...r7RLRFzwZ7e.99
    Try it. What could happen?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    WLC, do you use the Scientific Method to arrive at your opinions or positions?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffnmo View Post
    MNbees; could you please clarify between feral bees and swarms from other managed hives? how do you tell the difference?
    Fundamentally there is no difference.

    WLC, What percentage of the colonies of bees in the US perished from CCD last year?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  12. #12
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    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    thanks Sqk, that was my point for asking Mnbees. Once bees swarm and set up a hive in the wild they are refered to as feral. Wlc I think we all get your point that pesticides kill bees, however, IMHO there is not enough evidence to say it is neonics alone. There is probably a variety of causes and combinations thereof. MTA was supposed to clean up gasoline emissions and we pushed ahead hard on that and guess what after several years use we found it contaminated ground water. So lets move slow consider all view points and get this right.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    WLC, your just a .... Pawn for legislation..... You wouldn't last 5 minutes out here.......

    I think one of the things that is really interesting is I know my numbers are really low. I am only dealing with the hives I KNOW of.. I doubt that I really know about even half....

    We also have a guy here who runs about 30 hives, he gets all of his from swarms... and he looses 90% every year (lousey beek) so he gets more swarm calls than I do (thankfully)

    So here in the middle of noenics, fungicides, GMO, and imaclorpids. bees are thriving... WLC your scientist are IDIOTS.... real world evidence shows them to be fools. (moderators) the idiot was directed at Researchers in general not WLC)
    Last edited by Barry; 08-17-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffnmo View Post
    thanks Sqk, that was my point for asking Mnbees. Once bees swarm and set up a hive in the wild they are refered to as feral.
    Jeff,
    I haven't finished reading Randy Oliver's article in this month's ABJ titled "Refelections on the Honey Bee Health Summit" yet, but Randy has a better answer than I gave you. As usual there is more too it than my simplemind can think up on its own. On the 4th page, middle column, third paragraph it reads:
    "Concurrently, there is also a rebounding population of "wild type" feral and survivor colonies in many areas. These bees tend to be locally adapted, resilient, and have apparently worked out how to deal with the varroa/virus complex."

    If you don't have a copy of this magazine get one. If you have a copy, read this article if you don't read anything else this month. I'm going to try to read it twice.

    WLC, you too. U and Solomon. You can subscribe to the online version of ABJ.

    Sidenote: Interestingly Kim Flottum thinks varroavirus should be one word and Randy Oliver sees varroa/virus as almost insperable in modern beekeeping.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    those are not feral bees. they are swarms from other managed bee hives. .
    And you know that how? I don't ever hear about folks trucking bees to get to southern Illinois.

    I'm south of Kansas City about 20 miles. We have a good number of ferals here also and I caught several swarms originating from the same beetrees

    3 years running. Caught 15 + swarms this year, passed on maybe 10 more to others, did about 8 cutouts and passed on quite a few more of those.

    Don

  16. #16
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    Dec 2013
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    auburn, ca
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    The only way you could know that is by measuring the neonic residue in your hives, comparing them with other hives with CCD, and standardizing all the other variables. Everything else is just hearsay. But keep it up, Monsanto.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-23-2014 at 08:47 AM. Reason: religion

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Thankfully a masters degree doesn't hold water in hands on agriculture or we would all be in trouble.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Haraga View Post
    Thankfully a masters degree doesn't hold water in hands on agriculture or we would all be in trouble.
    The real experts doing the research do hold all the cards with advanced degrees from institutions around the world. I cite their peer-reviewed studies frequently, not the opinions of 'some guy with bees and a license'.

    Haraga, Do you hold a pesticide applicator's license?

    By the way, the ABF and Bret Adee are challenging the EPA's approval of sulfoxaflor (a new neonic). I bet I can tell which side you're on.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Yes. Pretty much all farmers in my area have an applicators license. Without it you are limited in buying chemicals.
    Keep in mind,Dubya, without farmers and ranchers, you would starve.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    It appears that some people only know what they read and have very little practical experience. It seems the reading type always have a little less invested in what's going on in the real world. Especially when it comes to agriculture.

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