Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 295
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    I have listened to many of the arguments off Neonics and Imiclorpids and GMO from all sorts of sources, seems most of them live in NY, Oregon, or CA.

    Well I don't I live in the MIDDLE of the area with the HIGHEST combination of the 3 pesticides. But whats really hit me yesterday was how foolish the claims are. And heres why. The town I live in is right at 3 square miles of surface area. 5000 people. Yesterday I did another cutout for the electric company. Its my 5th this year for the city. All of them good strong typical hives. But keep in mind, These cutouts are only in trees that threaten power lines. Yard trees are not included. and I am positively aware of at least 3 other wild hives in the same area. which makes 8 in a 3 square mile area, THAT I KNOW OF. That is better than 2 colonies per square mile of FERAL bees


    Just useing that number there are around 120,000 feral hives statewide. not counting the roughly 150k in domestic colonies est. to be in the state.
    2 feral colonies per square mile IN TOWN, in the area of the highest neonics in the world...

    And so far I have been to Bee meetings in most of southern IL at least once.... so far there has not been a single case of CCD reported.
    Bees are fine and healthy.... and more than 2 feral hives per square mile is FINE..... its all the forage they can handle in this part of the country. 80% monoculture will not support more bees than that.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Northfield,MN
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    those are not feral bees. they are swarms from other managed bee hives. and just because they seem fine and healthy right now does not mean much.
    I can tell you first hand that the bees most definitely are effected by these neonics just as they have been by all the chems used in the past many years. neonics just stay around longer and the systemic ones are around and available for poisoning for a few months.
    The reason you are not seeing the effects this year is because of the ample amount of rain that has been falling.
    120k feral hives in IL, ha that's a laugh. those hives will parish from mites soon enough.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    King County, Washington
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    120k feral hives in IL, ha that's a laugh. those hives will parish from mites soon enough.
    by your own admission.. not from neonics...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    MNbees; could you please clarify between feral bees and swarms from other managed hives? how do you tell the difference?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    He just ask them!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    The scientific consensus is that pesticide exposure is a contributing factor to Honeybee losses.

    So, the OP's post represents a minority viewpoint.

    With major Beekeeping organizations and others currently suing the EPA, that minority viewpoint is not in my own best interests.

    I would also say that it's not in the best interests of U.S. beekeepers or of the public.

    I can't find a good reason for a U.S. beekeeper to make such an opinion known in at this time while representatives of large numbers of beekeepers are locked in a conflict with the EPA over neonicotinoids.

    Why speak out against your own best interests?

    WLC.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    625

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    those are not feral bees. they are swarms from other managed bee hives. .
    And you know that how? I don't ever hear about folks trucking bees to get to southern Illinois.

    I'm south of Kansas City about 20 miles. We have a good number of ferals here also and I caught several swarms originating from the same beetrees

    3 years running. Caught 15 + swarms this year, passed on maybe 10 more to others, did about 8 cutouts and passed on quite a few more of those.

    Don

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    King County, Washington
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Why speak out against your own best interests?

    WLC.
    The entire "scientific community" also knew that...

    Blacks were intellectually inferior...

    Homosexuality was a mental disorder...

    Ice pick lobotomies was good medicine..

    and humans are to blame for the ice caps melting.

    My point is we have no clue why CCD is prevalent and I'm not about to jump on a bandwagon that will legislate us to death.

    Are Neonics to blame...o.k. fine...Show me the evidence.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    The EPA is saying that neonics are a contributing factor in colony losses.

    (I don't think that they had anything to do with the above low points in science.)

    Swarms could simply be a sign that thee are a lot of 'swarmy bee' genetics around.
    Or, worse, there are plenty of bees absconding from contaminated hives.

    I wouldn't say that it's a sign that 'the coast is clear', or not.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,118

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffnmo View Post
    MNbees; could you please clarify between feral bees and swarms from other managed hives? how do you tell the difference?
    Fundamentally there is no difference.

    WLC, What percentage of the colonies of bees in the US perished from CCD last year?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    thanks Sqk, that was my point for asking Mnbees. Once bees swarm and set up a hive in the wild they are refered to as feral. Wlc I think we all get your point that pesticides kill bees, however, IMHO there is not enough evidence to say it is neonics alone. There is probably a variety of causes and combinations thereof. MTA was supposed to clean up gasoline emissions and we pushed ahead hard on that and guess what after several years use we found it contaminated ground water. So lets move slow consider all view points and get this right.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    WLC, your just a .... Pawn for legislation..... You wouldn't last 5 minutes out here.......

    I think one of the things that is really interesting is I know my numbers are really low. I am only dealing with the hives I KNOW of.. I doubt that I really know about even half....

    We also have a guy here who runs about 30 hives, he gets all of his from swarms... and he looses 90% every year (lousey beek) so he gets more swarm calls than I do (thankfully)

    So here in the middle of noenics, fungicides, GMO, and imaclorpids. bees are thriving... WLC your scientist are IDIOTS.... real world evidence shows them to be fools. (moderators) the idiot was directed at Researchers in general not WLC)
    Last edited by Barry; 08-17-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Personal attack.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    http://www.nbcnews.com/science/epa-i...ees-6C10931490

    This is how I know the 'anti-neonic guys' won.

    The new bee hazard label.

    "This product can kill bees and other insect pollinators."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,223

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    This is some of the best data available.

    http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_heal...vey_Report.pdf

    Everyone should read and try to fully digest this while asking oneself why it is that some beekeeping operations are able to raise apparently strong healthy hives in the type of agricultural farming areas where others struggle.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,646

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Gmcharlie, learn from the master .... make your uncomplimentary comments less specific to an individual, as in:
    What a load of self serving nonsense.

    See WLC's Post #108 http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...977#post983977
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Northfield,MN
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Gmcharlie why would you ever defend something like that? i mean are you a beekeeper or not. If you read research or have enough hands on experience you would know that in general the bees aren't as healthy as they could be and many people have proven that neonics contribute to that.
    And yes thank you for stating the obvious that there are a combination of factors.

    I keep bees in the heart of farmland just like you are referring to, and yes they are healthy for now.
    but this is simple science we are talking about.

    systemic corn seeds are planted, then they grow tassels and produce poison pollen. if no rain falls the poison pollen blows around in the wind onto sweet clover, the bees gather some of that pollen and store it away to later feed young.

    Feral bees aren't feral until they successfully swarm and raise a new queen on their own and survive for more than one season. but then who's to say how they are able to mate. i mean if they are only able to mate because of managed drones in the area then to me that's not feral.

    "real world evidence shows researchers to be fools" that is the most ridiculous thing i think i have heard on beesource yet!!
    let me guess you keep 100 hives and you have it all figured out. try keeping thousands alive, changes the playing field a bit

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    766

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Jim,

    Thanks for posting the link to that report. Interesting results.

    It looks like the one common factor between the vast majority of hives is the presence of varroa.

    When looking at which pesticides were found it was not surprising that the most common were ones that could be used, legally or illegally for mite control. I was surprised to see how common chlorpyrifos was found. It is not one of the insecticides we hear blamed for bee deaths now days. It is an organophosphate with a pretty good residual life. I liked to use it as a flea dip for my dog when I lived in Florida.

    Tom

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,917

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    Gmcharlie why would you ever defend something like that?
    The problem is that if you have kept bees for long enough in agricultural areas you remember the crop dusters and 60' boom sprayers. The systemics seem easier on bees, other than the dust issue. You can try to ban all pesticides, but if we have to choose, many of us choose systemics.
    Bruce

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,252

    Default Re: Why/how I know the Anti Neonics guys are wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    This is some of the best data available.

    http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_heal...vey_Report.pdf

    Everyone should read and try to fully digest this while asking oneself why it is that some beekeeping operations are able to raise apparently strong healthy hives in the type of agricultural farming areas where others struggle.
    many thanks jim for this excellent link.

    i was unaware of the national survey until now. i'm happy to see the money being spent and these questions being examined. looks like this research has an excellent shot at giving us some solid answers.

    but if we get them, we might not have anything to quibble about on beesource.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads