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  1. #21
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Large scale queen producers would, I am sure, agree that anything over a 90% success rate is pretty rarified air though at least some of the "misses" may well involve cells that never hatched. If you don't have a lot of nearby hives to distract a returning, disoriented queen, though, I would think its reasonable to expect at least 9 of 10 queens to successfully find their way back into the proper hive.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  2. #22
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    Reno, NV
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    3,218

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    So, she can be and often is mated with her own sons.
    Please explain exactly how it is that an unmated queen has produced a son to mate with. This is going to be interesting.

    I suspect that you mean brother.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #23
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    Sep 2008
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    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Using instrumental insemination it is possible. A virgin queen can first be gassed with carbon dioxide which will induce her to start to lay, the eggs are drones and when the drones mature the semen is used to inseminate the virgin queen. At least that is how I have read it can be done.

  4. #24
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by marcos bees View Post
    I have a virgin queen that may be my only chance at a queen that will lay eggs. My other hive has no queen. Unfortunately, here we cannot order queens like in the U.S., so I have to make this queen work or I'm in deep crap and will likely lose both hives.

    What is the chance my queen will die on her mating flights? If she does then I'm up a creek.

    Also, does she mate with drones from her hive or other hives? I ask b/c there is no one in the local area who has meliferra, so I assume she would have to mate with drones from one of my hives. And there aren't that many drones. Like only a handful.
    All the other bees in your area, are they apis dorsata or apis cerana? Or both?
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  5. #25
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    Feb 2007
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    Lincolnton, NC
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    1,129

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Please explain exactly how it is that an unmated queen has produced a son to mate with. This is going to be interesting.

    I suspect that you mean brother.
    Yes, I meant genetically related.

  6. #26
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    I thought that there was a theory that queens flew farther away from the hive to mate than drones flew to mate. If true, that would keep queens from mating w/ their brothers.

    I looked in my Encyclopedia of Beekeeping but couldn't find it stated. Other interesting stuff in there though. Drones don't start searching for the queen scent 9-0-2 until they get to a certain altitude, about 30 feet up. If I recall what i read correctly. How drone congregations are established and why they are established where they are is not fully understood.
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    125

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Marco, isn't Indonesia a tropical country? I come from a tropical country myself and feral bees are abundant in tropical countries, a least where I am from. They even settle in peculiar high places, trees and masonry wall. Just ask the locals about bees in the area. It must be a good flow year around.

  8. #28
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    Indonesia
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    69

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Robert, yes indonesia is very tropical. Where are you from?

    There are wild bees here, but they are mostly apis cerana, the local native bee. Apis mellifera were imported back in the day and although they do well here, they are not native, so I am not sure if they can be considered "feral". Generally, what we find in the wild here are cerana.

    Quote Originally Posted by roberto487 View Post
    Marco, isn't Indonesia a tropical country? I come from a tropical country myself and feral bees are abundant in tropical countries, a least where I am from. They even settle in peculiar high places, trees and masonry wall. Just ask the locals about bees in the area. It must be a good flow year around.

  9. #29
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    Feb 2007
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    Lincolnton, NC
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    1,129

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Marcos, let us know what you do and how it works out for you.

  10. #30
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by roberto487 View Post
    It must be a good flow year around.
    This is a false assumption that people often make. There is nowhere that one will find good flows all year around. Ecosystems and flowering plants don't work that way. In temperate climates, such as the Northern parts of the US, we have warm times when flowering plants can produce w/ dry periods when they don't followed by a cold time w/ snow. Tropical areas have rainy seasons.
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  11. #31
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    Sep 2012
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    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by marcos bees View Post
    Robert, yes indonesia is very tropical. Where are you from?

    There are wild bees here, but they are mostly apis cerana, the local native bee. Apis mellifera were imported back in the day and although they do well here, they are not native, so I am not sure if they can be considered "feral". Generally, what we find in the wild here are cerana.
    Marco, I am from the Dominican Republic, the Apis mellifera were also imported a while back and they have a strong hold on the ecosystem, they are basically everywhere. I have seen hives on colonial ruins in the capital city and in the country side they are abundant on avocado and mango trees.

  12. #32
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    Jun 2013
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    Indonesia
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    69

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Thanks Roberto. What kind of flowers do the bees feed on in the DR?

    Right now I see mango trees here starting to bud. Should be a few months til they are in bloom.

    Quote Originally Posted by roberto487 View Post
    Marco, I am from the Dominican Republic, the Apis mellifera were also imported a while back and they have a strong hold on the ecosystem, they are basically everywhere. I have seen hives on colonial ruins in the capital city and in the country side they are abundant on avocado and mango trees.

  13. #33
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    Sep 2012
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    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    125

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    avocado, mangoes, bananas, passion fruit, papaya, guava, squash, citrus, and so on.

  14. #34
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    Jun 2013
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    Indonesia
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    69

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Thanks Heaflaw, this is the info I was looking for. Yeah, I wanted to know how long the eggs or larva could last in transit while not being fed by nurse bees. Here the post office will not allow bees to be shipped.


    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    Since no one else is answering you, I'll try and then maybe someone north of the Mason-Dixon line can help also.

    It takes about 3 days for eggs to hatch into larva. For bees to raise a new queen, they need to use larva that has hatched less than 3 days and preferably only one day. So, if your shipment takes a long time to arrive, they cannot use the larva to raise successful queens.

    The larva need to be fed as soon as they hatch from eggs, so if eggs are shipped and at least some of them are newly laid, I guess that would work. The eggs/larva absolutely must be kept warm-I think around 85 degrees F.

    It would be far better to have the frame of eggs shipped along with the adhering nurse bees to keep them warm and attend to any larva that hatch. They would need to be shipped in a ventilated container (cage made of screen wire would be perfect) and would need feed of soft candy, fondue, etc. Too much jarring in shipment would not be good.

    Hope I didn't leave something out.

  15. #35
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    Aug 2015
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    Spanish Fork, Utah
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    37

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    so lets do a decision tree... to figure this out. IF something happened to the queen on the mating flight would the bees come back to the hive who were with her when she died? And would they trigger some kind of ... pheromone reaction or whatever that would trigger the other bees to know she's gone? Would there be a difference in time too between the other bees remaining behind starting to 'cry' from her just leaving as compared to her leaving and then something happening to her?

  16. #36
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    1,422

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    There is one way to avoid the risk of a mating flight, which is to use instrumental insemination. You can find instructions and how-to videos on line. This is a pretty advanced technique, usually only used for $200 breeder queens where the breeder wants to control which drones mate with the queen.

    It is grizzly business, involving killing and dismembering the drones. But things end badly for the drones in any case.

  17. #37
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    Aug 2015
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    Spanish Fork, Utah
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    37

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    I think its kind of funny in a way...we think the bees killing their drones and dismembering them is cruel...but we have divorce lawyers do it for us and they make the agony last for years instead of a small moment. Which is really more cruel =D

    I've got a lot of ideas on bees vs lawyers jokes.

  18. #38
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by hagane View Post
    IF something happened to the queen on the mating flight would the bees come back to the hive who were with her when she died?
    I think you have assumed that when a virgin queen goes out on her mating flights that she does so accompanied. I am not certain of this, but I don't think she does go out with an entourage. I have never heard of that happening.

    For certain drones from the same hive do not go with her. Queens fly farther to DCAs than the drones from her parent colony do.
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  19. #39
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by hagane View Post
    ...we think the bees killing their drones and dismembering them is cruel...
    Bees do not kill their drones and dismember them. I think you have some basic bee biology studying to do.
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  20. #40
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    Jun 2013
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    Cumberland Va.
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    3,171

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    5 out of 6 made it this year. G
    The Bees are the Beekeepers

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