Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    69

    Default Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    I have a virgin queen that may be my only chance at a queen that will lay eggs. My other hive has no queen. Unfortunately, here we cannot order queens like in the U.S., so I have to make this queen work or I'm in deep crap and will likely lose both hives.

    What is the chance my queen will die on her mating flights? If she does then I'm up a creek.

    Also, does she mate with drones from her hive or other hives? I ask b/c there is no one in the local area who has meliferra, so I assume she would have to mate with drones from one of my hives. And there aren't that many drones. Like only a handful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Shediac, NB, Canada
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    YMMV, but we are running 50% - one post swarm queen didn't return, one "emergency" queen from a hive split did. Don't know what the national average is.
    Common wisdom is that a queen will not mate with drones from her own hive - they're not like the royals of Europe!
    There are hopefully bees in your area that you don't know about.

    good luck

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,575

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Im running 100% this year on 5 splits but we have alot of feral hives around and diversity in genetics.

    Its a possibility she is caught by bird or injured etc, I would be more concerned about mating drones nearby. Unlike the kind folk down south, bees don't do incest.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,115

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    I disagree with the first 2 answers. Queens cannot control which drones mate with her. It's whichever drones happen to get to her-luck of the draw. So, she can be and often is mated with her own sons. However, she mates with on average 15 different drones giving her a variety of sperm. When eggs are laid that are fertilized from sperm of her own sons, the worker bees can tell and eliminate those eggs from the cells. That is one of the reasons that a brood pattern is spotty. The workers have eliminated the inbred eggs from the broodnest. http://www.bushfarms.com/beesgeneticdiversity.htm

    Hopefully, there may be feral colonies of bees in trees/buildings/etc from swarms of your hives or past hives that may have drones to mate with your queen.

    Maybe you could get a frame of bees and eggs from a mellifera beekeeper in another town and let your other hive raise queens to be mated with by your drones. In your situation, it would be best if the 2 hives were of different stock-the more diverse and the more number of drones around from different genetic sources, the better.

    By the way, you write with very Americanized English. I'm impressed.

    Good luck. In the US, we seldom have extreme problems of lack of genetic diversity that you have. Please let us know how it works out for you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,575

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    I disagree with the first 2 answers. Queens cannot control which drones mate with her.
    I should have clarified, when i said bees don't do incest like those kind folk in Lincolnton, I should have said incest mating doesn't produce viable results much like in humans and most organisms named heaflaw. ;-) jk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Normal mating succses is around 90% in most places. Your in a totally different world with not as many options....... Theory has it they will mate with drones from there own hive, but I don't know how anyone knows for sure.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,270

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by burns375 View Post

    unlike the kind folk down south, bees don't do incest.
    did they move the masson dixon line?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    It's been said, but I bet there are some bees in your area somewhere. If not, I don't know what to tell you. I sure hope it works out.

    Quote Originally Posted by burns375 View Post
    Unlike the kind folk down south, bees don't do incest.
    To quote The Office: Do you really want to have just said that?
    Try it. What could happen?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    You don't have much choice but to let her mate... and that has risks. Odds are she will fly further and higher than the drones from the same yard, but there is no telling what drones she will mate with and if some of the drones from her hive have drifted back from a DCA to some other hive and then flew out with those drones to the same DCA (Drone Congregation Area) that the queen did. In other words, there are no guarantees but the biology of the bee puts the odds in favor of out crossing and diversity rather than inbreeding.

    What can you do? I find that a queen is more likely to fly and more successful if the hive is in a flow. If it's not in a flow, I would reduce the entrance (to prevent robbing) and feed them during the time when she needs to mate. This will increase the odds that she will fly and that she will succeed. Everything works better in a flow, including queen mating.

    Never underestimate how many drones there are and how many feral hives there are. She will likely find some drones somewhere.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,115

    Wink Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by burns375 View Post
    I should have clarified, when i said bees don't do incest like those kind folk in Lincolnton, I should have said incest mating doesn't produce viable results much like in humans and most organisms named heaflaw. ;-) jk
    I'll have you know, that in my ancestry, I only have 3 sets of first cousins that married and had children. I credit that as to why I have 9 toes instead of 7 or 8.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,958

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    I'm sure queen success is local, like much of beekeeping. I have 80% average success from queen cell to laying queen. Some don't hatch and some don't come back. This year I was 100% successful on my first larger batch and 50% on my smaller second batch. (The second batch was to replace any failures from the first, which I didn't end up having). I rarely have a hive go queenless though, say after swarming or supercedure. I know that I see a lot of that here on Beesource, but I don't see it in either of my apiaries. In one, I have up to 100 swallows flying over my hives at any one time. It looks like a terrible place for bees, but I've never not had a queen return. Maybe they prefer drones.
    Bruce

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    My last set of a dozen queens only had two return alive. I figure it was from the birds migrating through at the time.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,270

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    My last set of a dozen queens only had two return alive. I figure it was from the birds migrating through at the time.
    And how many returned dead as opposed to not returning. LMAO. Sorry Paul Could not help myself??

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    This is the funniest thread! You guys are crazy. thanks for the comment about my Americanized English. That's probably b/c I am an American living over here.. LOL.

    I don't understand all this stuff about the flow b/c I have given them syrup, but they won't take it right now, so I assume the flow is on.

    If I was to get a frame of new eggs, how long can those eggs last in shipment without being fed? It would likely take 2 days door to door...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,681

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    So, she can be and often is mated with her own sons.
    Errr...given that a queen only mates _before_ she starts laying any eggs, this is not possible. Brother, cousin, etc...sure, but not offspring.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Queens returning dead - I would LOVE to have some undead queens! Think of the market for those! What a novelty.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    Queens returning dead - I would LOVE to have some undead queens! Think of the market for those! What a novelty.
    Zombees.

    Try it. What could happen?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,115

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Errr...given that a queen only mates _before_ she starts laying any eggs, this is not possible. Brother, cousin, etc...sure, but not offspring.

    deknow
    Duh on me. Of course you're correct.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,115

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Errr...given that a queen only mates _before_ she starts laying any eggs, this is not possible. Brother, cousin, etc...sure, but not offspring.

    deknow
    Okay. Maybe the incest thing effects the brain also.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,115

    Default Re: Chances of queen dying on mating flights

    Quote Originally Posted by marcos bees View Post
    If I was to get a frame of new eggs, how long can those eggs last in shipment without being fed? It would likely take 2 days door to door...
    Since no one else is answering you, I'll try and then maybe someone north of the Mason-Dixon line can help also.

    It takes about 3 days for eggs to hatch into larva. For bees to raise a new queen, they need to use larva that has hatched less than 3 days and preferably only one day. So, if your shipment takes a long time to arrive, they cannot use the larva to raise successful queens.

    The larva need to be fed as soon as they hatch from eggs, so if eggs are shipped and at least some of them are newly laid, I guess that would work. The eggs/larva absolutely must be kept warm-I think around 85 degrees F.

    It would be far better to have the frame of eggs shipped along with the adhering nurse bees to keep them warm and attend to any larva that hatch. They would need to be shipped in a ventilated container (cage made of screen wire would be perfect) and would need feed of soft candy, fondue, etc. Too much jarring in shipment would not be good.

    Hope I didn't leave something out.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads