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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    4

    Default no bees in the first deep

    Has anyone had the problem of bees migrating up into the second deep and leaving the first deep empty?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Algood, TN, USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    I have had the same problem with a nuc I got last year. I have had quite a few problems with this hive this year and one of them is that the queen (queens as it has swarmed twice) don't seem to want to lay in the bottom deep brood box. Hopefully someone has an answer for this problem!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN USA
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Could it simply be a matter of timing, where the bottom deep was filled with brood and honey, she moved up to the second deep, then all of the first deep hatched out just before you looked? Or is this a thing where they've gone for weeks and weeks ignoring the bottom box?

    If the hive is nice and strong, my first thought would be to checkerboard some brood back down into the bottom again.
    (Warning: First thoughts are not always best thoughts.)
    Beekeeper since 2013. Read my bee blog at:
    http://harrisonbayhoney.blogspot.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    In fact, I just pulled an empty bottom deep off yesterday! But I think in my case, they had a bit too much room up top, and the queen decided she'd prefer it warmer/darker away from my screened bottom board. so I removed the deep, and let the hive shrink down a bit.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    I wonder if it has something to do with when I moved two frames of brood up to the second deep to guide the bees up. Should it be capped or uncapped brood when this is done. If I move up capped brood and it hatches before the brood below, then the queen will lay up top before she lays in the bottom. I think Im overthinking it now. I just cant figure out why they moved up but completely abandoned the bottom deep. Maybe I added the second deep too soon? Any more thoughts?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,451

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerharvey View Post
    Maybe I added the second deep too soon?
    Maybe ... How long have you had the hive? Did you miss the spring flow. Could be there wasn't enough time to expand and keep both deeps full. Maybe you had a supercedure, succumbing to mite load or any other pest related issues. Is there brood and eggs now?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,859

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Bees will always be in the top box that has room for the queen to lay. Unless the top box is full of honey they will be up there until they get to the honey cap. Many of my hives live their winter in the top box with honey to the sides.
    Bruce

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Quote Originally Posted by beedeetee View Post
    Bees will always be in the top box that has room for the queen to lay. Unless the top box is full of honey they will be up there until they get to the honey cap. Many of my hives live their winter in the top box with honey to the sides.
    I have been doing some reading and the concensus is that even in the wild, bees move up in the winter and down in the summer . This is why top supering and warre hives confuse me. So my bees should be moving back down to the bottom deep in preperation for winter, but I dont think they will because there is no honey down there to support the winter brood nest. She will probably choose the second deep as her brood nest for the winter. Then I will ask myself whether or not to remove the empty bottom deep before winter?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    209

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    I would think that they would move back down as they require more space. One of my hive's moved further up and pretty much shut down during the dearth we had in the first couple of weeks of August. They will also move the broodnest up to store pollen for winter below.
    Adam - Zone 5A
    www.adamshoney.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,859

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    The only reason they move down in the summer is that they are forced down when they put honey above. If they don't have honey to put above they don't move down. The reason they move up in winter is that they use the honey above them and follow it up.
    Bruce

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
    Posts
    388

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerharvey View Post
    Has anyone had the problem of bees migrating up into the second deep and leaving the first deep empty?
    We have 6 hives. The three on screened bottoms, do this. The three on solid bottoms do not.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Quote Originally Posted by zhiv9 View Post
    I would think that they would move back down as they require more space. One of my hive's moved further up and pretty much shut down during the dearth we had in the first couple of weeks of August. They will also move the broodnest up to store pollen for winter below.
    Hi Zhive9,
    Have you seen any goldenrod coming in yet in the Barrie area?
    I'm in Bolton, just South west of you on the edge of zone 5B and 5A
    I Have one hive that sure could use a nice fall flow to build up stores for winter.
    The other two hives look like they will have enough stores by fall time.

    This is my first year with bees.

    Glen

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    209

    Default Re: no bees in the first deep

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen H View Post
    Hi Zhive9,
    Have you seen any goldenrod coming in yet in the Barrie area?
    Hi Glen,

    Goldenrod is really starting to come on strong in the last few days. Asters are also blooming. I have a couple of hives that really need to make hay on the fall flow as well.

    Best of luck,

    Adam
    Adam - Zone 5A
    www.adamshoney.com

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