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Thread: Time Article

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    "Arguments*against*neonic*seed*treatments* Actual*facts*
    The*neonicotinoids*have*been*“linked”*to*increased * colony*mortality.* ... ... ...
    If you believe the inclusion of all those asterisks somehow increases the readability or validity of what you post, I suspect most readers will strongly disagree.

    From my perspective, Oldtimer and Randy both have significantly more credibility than WLC.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Sorry WLC your post makes no sense to me.

    Could you say whatever it is in plain English?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Randy has offered to dialogue with you directly, which is certainly more generous than I would have been were I him.
    I would suggest you accept the offer, talking in person might get you better acquainted with the man, rather than the magazine article.
    See, this can't happen because WLC is incognito and if he contacted Randy, he would then blow his cover. That's what happens when people choose to live behind the curtain.
    Regards, Barry

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Yawn.

    Oldtimer asks for proof that Randy is a 'beewasher', and I provide it with links.

    By the way, why should I contact an industry spokesperson?

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Harsher than a nobody calling a re-known authority "ignorant"?
    I stand corrected, sorry bout my earlier post frank

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Time Article

    "Arguments against neonic seed treatments:

    Myth: The neonicotinoids have been “linked” to increased colony mortality,

    Actual facts: In actuality, such a “link” is merely an urban legend, and has never been demonstrated or confirmed in any study."

    I hope that you can see that the 'actual facts' are a lie.


    "From my perspective, Oldtimer and Randy both have significantly more credibility than WLC."

    sidetrack: well, after the Time article, I would just list Oldtimer.

    Barry: Randy knows how to reach me if he likes.

    But, the fact remains, Randy looks like an industry spokesman that doesn't believe that insecticides are a major issue for beekeeping.


  7. #67
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    But, the fact remains, Randy looks like an industry spokesman that doesn't believe that insecticides are a major issue for beekeeping.
    talk about spin.

    the 'fact' remains that anybody who has read oliver and is commenting objectively cannot say with a straight face that:

    1. randy 'looks like an industry spokesman'. he has repeatedly outlined his strict standards for the open and straightforward presentation of any data that he was involved with collecting, as well as a consistent history of not being shy to point the finger of blame on industry when it is deserved, including calling for compensation for losses attributalbe to pesticides.

    2. that randy 'doesn't believe that insecticides are a major issue for beekeeping'. again, what he repeatedly states in his articles is that the information available at this point in time does not support that the 30% of colonies that are lost each year is a direct result of neonicotinoids. he is quick to point out that pesticides (including the one's that beekeepers introduce) are a very important issue.

    so what is it wlc, professional rivalry? jealousy? were you or your ideas passed over by beeologics? it's pretty obvious that you are portraying oliver's position in a manner inconsistent with reality and as though you are letting a personal agenda trump reality.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Time Article

    squarepeg:

    Do you, or don't you, have the TIME article in front of you?

    Then you can comment.

    I've been reflecting on Sol's comments, and how Randy is 'typecast' in the article.

    I'm not sure what the rest of you are going on about.

    Oldtimer asked for a lie from Randy, and he got it.

    Simple, right?

    Now for the why of Bryan Walsh's placement of Randy's quote in that particular section of the article, right smack dab in the middle of the industry take on the issue...?
    Last edited by WLC; 08-10-2013 at 10:43 AM.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Time Article

    aw come on wlc, your attack on oliver in this thread and many others extends well beyond his typecasting in the time article.

    what's your beef?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Do you mean to say that it's O.K. for a Bayer spokesman to say: there's no link between neonics and colony mortality, and insecticides aren't a major issue?

    Randy is a public figure and Bayer spokesman at this point.

    Should I use big fluffy pillows?

    How long before the honeymoon is over?

    Who called a truce between Monsanto, Bayer and U.S. Beekeepers?

    Really, squarepeg. What are your thoughts?

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Time Article

    my thoughts are:

    1. that labeling randy as a 'bayer spokesman' is both inaccurate and unfair.

    2. portraying randy's call for getting to the facts before jumping to conclusions as 'a truce' is both inaccurate and unfair.

    3. if this isn't something personal between you and randy, i can't help but conclude that you are engaged in, how did you phrase it, 'pesticide politics'?

    i can see how randy's objective, fact based, open-minded approach would cause discomfort for those spending time and treasure on the political front pushing for bans on pesticides.

    your point of view is yours to own wlc, and i have appreciated your contributions to the forum, but someone as bright as you shouldn't have a hard time understanding why some of us here are scratching our heads over why you persist in making randy oliver and his perspective something that they are not.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Should I use big fluffy pillows?

    How long before the honeymoon is over?
    Is this the kind of post you really want to be remembered for?

    Perhaps its time to start bookmarking some of your more .... memorable .... quotes.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Time Article

    I thought Randy was getting six figures for doing this?

    I'm not getting paid. Are you?

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Time Article

    nice try.

    another example of trying to turn the corner on the conversation rather than giving a direct response.

    i answered your questions, how 'bout answering mine.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Time Article

    If I was a Bayer strategist, and I am not, and I was asked how to derail a looming restriction on Neo-Nics; my very first suggestion would be to create an anonymous on-line troll so obnoxious and intemperate that no one in his right mind would support the troll's positions.

    The most logical explanation for WLC is he is a pure-false-flag, created with the sole purpose of making any attempt to regulate Bayer products a non-starter within the Bee community. The technique is to be loud, obnoxious, unpleasant, and irrational. He is doing an admirable job of making it impossible to comment even-handedly on neo-nics.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    But, the fact remains, Randy looks like an industry spokesman that doesn't believe that insecticides are a major issue for beekeeping.
    I notice this subtle shift now in your words. Now it's "insecticides."
    Regards, Barry

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post
    The most logical explanation for WLC is he is a pure-false-flag, created with the sole purpose of making any attempt to regulate Bayer products a non-starter within the Bee community. The technique is to be loud, obnoxious, unpleasant, and irrational. He is doing an admirable job of making it impossible to comment even-handedly on neo-nics.
    (slapping forehead)

    dang, looks like i fell for it hook, line, and sinker!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Time Article

    squarepeg:

    So you don't believe that Randy is on the Bayer payroll.

    What facts is he talking about? That he didn't like the way the article portrayed his views? That's just too bad.

    Yes, this is about BeeWashing, aka pesticide politics.

    I say, "Is so!", he'll say, "Is not!"

    "I notice this subtle shift now in your words. Now it's "insecticides." "

    From his quote. Where else?

    As for how corporate corruption can reach into the bee community...

    Isn't that Randy's new gig?

    They got to him alright. You're club can be next (for a generous donation to the club, of course).

    All you have to do is ask.

    "nice try. another example of trying to turn the corner on the conversation rather than giving a direct response.i answered your questions, how 'bout answering mine."

    I don't answer 'do you still kick your dog?' type questions.

    Once again, I'm not a paid spokesman.

    Why are you defending a paid spokesperson? Seriously? Did your club/organization get its donation so you feel obligated?

    Not me.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    "I notice this subtle shift now in your words. Now it's "insecticides." "

    From his quote. Where else?
    Nowhere else. That's the point, but I'm afraid for you to understand this, we will have to go another 10 rounds and I'm not interested in that.
    Regards, Barry

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Come on guysa were arguing with a pig in the pigpen hes getting more out of pushing our buttons... let him wallow in his own stye....

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