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Thread: Time Article

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    However, it's a sore spot with some orthodox treatment free types.

    You know, natural feed only...
    If this is intended to be a slam towards Solomon, at least have the courtesy of slamming him for something he actually said, or does.

    If you read some of Solomon's posts you will find that he does feed [gasp!!] granulated sugar, when appropriate. That is not natural feed by any reasonable definition.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Time Article

    So, Tim Ives would call him a 'sugar feeding idiot'.

    I don't see Randy as an 'ignorant alarmist'.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Ha Ha yes the other Tim Ives expression that I thought was quite funny was "living in candyland" LOL

    Which would include me I will feed sugar if warranted, but still saw the humour in the statement.

    Tim is a great guy his beekeeping is very different to most of what we read. He also, has a big mouth, but has the skills and results to back it, I wish he would post more.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I don't have any desire to take my bees to almonds....but I'm in no position to judge those who do.
    this is how i feel about it too dan.

    it's also how i feel about treating vs. not and feeding vs. not.

    unless we think that we're doing the bees a big favor by keeping them in in our hives, that they are somehow better off being managed than they would be on their own, we have to admit that we are all exploiting them for our purposes, even if that is nothing more than watching them fly.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I dunno Mark. They want 'em booming earlier than nature would have them.
    I'm not being critical....I don't have any desire to take my bees to almonds....but I'm in no position to judge those who do.
    Yeah, I guess you are right about that after all.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  6. #26
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    this is how i feel about it too dan.

    it's also how i feel about treating vs. not and feeding vs. not.

    unless we think that we're doing the bees a big favor by keeping them in in our hives, that they are somehow better off being managed than they would be on their own, we have to admit that we are all exploiting them for our purposes, even if that is nothing more than watching them fly.
    Well said.

    Yet it is suggested there is a bee apocalypse looming because 1 1/2 million strong healthy hives were not delivered to the almond growers last year and put into these so called "feedlot" conditions as if whatever the almond growers demand is the new standard for bee health in our country. On this very thread are a couple of good beekeepers stating they would prefer not to send their bees, and they are hardly the only ones. If anyone has a better idea of how to prep a few thousand thousand semi load lots of hives that have been shipped 1,000+ miles to get them large at a time of year when most northern hives are still in winter wraps the industry would love to hear about it.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Nuuuuutra Beeeeeeeeee.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    http://science.time.com/2013/08/09/t...ene/?hpt=hp_t3

    Alarmist, ignorant, Randy Oliver not helping as usual.
    Have they changed the article since you read it? Because that's not even close to how it came across to me.

    You aren't covering yourself in glory when you call Randy Oliver (or anyone else for that matter) names. If he's ignorant then I must be too ignorant to understand that he is. Randy Oliver is one of the few people who does beekeeping experiments and shares his work, and does it in a way which acknowledges and tries to minimize confirmation bias. Most of what is available is 100 percent anecdotal evidence, and not even trying to be scientific. I think we all owe a little bit of respect to anyone who does that.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Time Article

    What about funny Chinese honey.... isn't that produced kind of how Randy is describing keeping bees?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Time Article

    >Alarmist, ignorant, Randy Oliver not helping as usual.

    I attended a Randy Oliver class recently and found him to be the most articulate, well informed and educational speaker I have heard in my 40+ years of attending bee lectures. He clearly backed up what I have concluded for years, that it is mite vectored viruses that winter kill my bees.

    When Solomon has 1% of the experience, 1% of the bees hives, 1% of the demand as a nationwide lecturer, completed 1% of the research that Randy has done, and published 1% of the articles that Randy has, he might then be 1% of the way to being able to compare himself to Randy.

    As a totally uncredited and unqualified "teacher" who thinks that he has something to offer us with his "Ask questions Here" threads, Solomon has once again made a fool of himself with this comment.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Nuuuuutra Beeeeeeeeee.
    What was I thinking?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Time Article

    [QUOTE=Solomon Parker;983393Alarmist, ignorant, Randy Oliver not helping as usual.[/QUOTE]


    Well...Well I've known Randy for twenty five years and is a close friend, I got Randy started writing with ABJ back in 2008, I talk with Randy alot about the bee industry where its been and where it's going. To call Randy ignorant is just foolish. Sad to hear this on this board.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Time Article

    I think that was a little harsh Frank but such is life. I don't always agree with Sol, but I find his information is typically very useful and he's very open with what has worked for him.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    I think that was a little harsh Frank but such is life. I don't always agree with Sol, but I find his information is typically very useful and he's very open with what has worked for him.
    Harsher than a nobody calling a re-known authority "ignorant"?

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Harsher than a nobody calling a re-known authority "ignorant"?
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Time Article

    "If anyone has a better idea of how to prep a few thousand thousand semi load lots of hives that have been shipped 1,000+ miles to get them large at a time of year when most northern hives are still in winter wraps the industry would love to hear about it."

    Mexico.

    "We've dealt with insecticides for a long time...I'm not thoroughly convinced this is a major issue."

    This Randy-ism is something that I'll characterize as 'not even wrong'.

    He's been downplaying the role of neonics for a while now. Especially since his association with Monsanto/Bayer.

    He's not an ignorant alarmist. But, I would call him an 'intelligent agent'.

    He's on the wrong team.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Time Article

    "Harsher than a nobody calling a re-known authority "ignorant"?"

    He's no authority.

    We could go even harsher and use the term, "Lying industry shill".

    But, we won't since we're only giving an example of what some folks would like to say about Randy.

    So, while some of us think that Randy is being gassed up like a ballon that's gonna pop...

    Marla Spivak, that's a 'REAL' authority. She's a genius.
    Last edited by WLC; 08-10-2013 at 03:35 AM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    We could go even harsher and use the term, "Lying industry shill".
    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    But, we won't
    But, you just did.

    Soon as Randy gets paid to do some research for "the industry", there's going to be some folks although surprisingly few, question his integrity.

    Randy is quite logical and I believe honest, in his assessment of the evidence on the matter. The study he released does not even draw a whole lot of conclusions, more, it simply presents a bunch of facts he has assembled that lead to their own conclusion the reader can make their own assessment. Sorry, calling the man a liar offensive, in fact I would challenge you to either reference one of these lies, or withdraw the accusation. However the neonics debate is not for this thread it has been, and no doubt will be, debated elsewhere.

    The above type of abuse without any sensible explanation is just abuse and contributes nothing. I thought this behavior style would just be confined to the OP. Sorry WLC.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-10-2013 at 04:18 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Oldtimer:

    First, take out your current issue of TIME magazine. (August 19, 2013)

    p. 30, first paragraph.

    "Pesticide makers argue that actual levels of neonicotinoid exposure in the field are too low to be the main culprit in colony loss. "We've dealt with insecticides for a long time, "says Randy Oliver..."I'm not thouroughly convinced this is a major issue."

    See what I mean NOW Oldtimer?

    You have to see it in the context of the whole article to understand why folks can say that Randy looks like a shill.

    Recently, he claimed that there's no evidence for neonicotinoids impacting colony health. That was under the heading "facts".

    That's blatantly untrue. And, yes, he is a Bayer spokesman.

    Do you see why folks can get 'harsh', and still be truthful?

    "ignorant alarmist" was mild.
    Last edited by WLC; 08-10-2013 at 05:13 AM.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Time Article

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    he claimed that there's no evidence for neonicotinoids impacting colony health. That was under the heading "facts".

    That's blatantly untrue.
    In context, I don't actually recall him saying that. Here is a direct quote from him "•There are occasional, but intolerable bee kills due to seed planting dust (especially so this year), from which individual beekeepers may suffer serious financial losses. This issue must be resolved!"
    Is that saying neonicitiniods do not affect colony health? No it isn't. Be careful it is not you who is the liar.

    Abusing someone, and then lying about what they say, to justify the abuse, is just more abuse of the worst kind. Even if you feel strongly about neonicitiniods, this type of behaviour is hardly acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    "We've dealt with insecticides for a long time, "says Randy Oliver..."I'm not thouroughly convinced this is a major issue."

    See what I mean NOW Oldtimer?
    I've seen what you mean all along.

    Don't agree with it. That's all. Here briefly, is why.

    There are some people who have convinced themselves that neonicitioids are the major factor in bee colony losses. Randy though, is "not convinced" of this, however he does believe neonicitiniods can badly effect bees as I have pointed out. And in view of the lack of evidence for neonics being the biggest ever problem, that outlook in my view, is the correct scientific response at this time. What if the major cause is something else? Should we not be open minded to that? A proper scientist would be. The people who have decided that neonicitiniods cause everything, despite lack of conclusive evidence for this, are not following proper scientific method.

    WLC I am not objecting to your opinion on the matter, it's a democracy, you can hold any opinion you like. But this name calling and abuse and seeming hatred almost, of someone with a different view, does not progress anything and is irrational.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-10-2013 at 06:06 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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