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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Roy, Wa
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    1,575

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Thanks Keith. I'll look again when I have more time.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,710

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    And thank you Joe! I have bookmarked this for future threads.
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Roy, Wa
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    1,575

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Yes, thank you Joe

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
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    3,161

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    There is plenty of new research and insight, which is why it boggles my mind when beekeepers cite DeGroot’s 1953 research. The next time you go to your doctor, please ask him or her to pull out their 1953 medical guide to determine the proper treatment for your visit today.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    Joe are you implying that Degroot's protein profile is wrong or incorrect ?
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,073

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    I am still amazed at beesource's ability to find the grain of disagreement in the face of nearly total agreement.

    Take aways from this discussion;

    Lauri's apple cider vinegar adds an important ingrediant; flavor. Nutrition does not matter if they do not eat it. I recall a Michael Bush and others thread about cider vinegar in syrup causing robbing. Using it in patties makes sense.

    Never thought of sub helping with wax. Thanks Cam and Ray.

    Both Keith Jarrett and Joe Latshaw sell there product by the tote. Some big producers must like it a lot, must be for a reason.

    Neither man likes to sell it in small quantities; They are not trying to drum up more little guy business here when they share their knowledge.

    Neither man is going to do a Julia Childs impersonation with his recipe. Get over it. Thank you for the imput.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,710

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    > Neither man likes to sell it in small quantities

    Well, some of Joe Latshaw's bee feed products are available in smaller quantities. Here are 4 lb bags and 40 lb bags:
    http://www.betterbee.com/Products?search=Latshaw
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mesa Arizona USA
    Posts
    163

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Well gang I don't have a dog in this fight but maybe I cam shed a little light on a couple things. I met Keith 4-5 years ago. Over this few years we have discussed many things and a common theme has surfaced in my mind regarding Keith. He is willing to help people, he is willing to pass along very usful info to a noob. He isn't however going to just give you the answer to the test. He wants you to do your homework and draw your own conclusions. We then usually talk about what I come up with. Sometimes I get a good job George and sometimes I get a little tune up. He is not the kind of guy to pussy foot around, he is not mean but, he is direct. He comes across gruff especially over the internet As it is hard to convey emotions etc. What's Keith has taught me to do is fish, so I can feed myself another day, he wants others here to be able to look at a sub- recipe and figure out for your self if this is a good balanced formula and if its priced right for what your getting. I have been in his bees a couple times over the years and he does have huge hives in Feb.Now wether it's because of his sub or because he is actually an witch doctor with a grass skirt and a chicken leg around his neck Or what I don't know ( sorry Keith I couldn't help myself). These are just some thoughts that have come to mind as I have looked over this thread. And yes I pay the same price for my sub as anyone else, so no discount to plug the product. Anyway best to all and good luck with your bees . GB
    George Brenner @ www.valleyhoneyco.com
    Mesa, AZ

  8. #88
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Kieth is obviously pretty bright, and a good beek, but his inability to give a straight simple answer is really annoying.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Clinton County, IN, USA
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Yeah know..... I'm giving you Randy Olivers web site??

    Keith, I have a question about Randy's "Kitchen Sink" brew found here http://scientificbeekeeping.com/poll...ement-formula/

    Is there any ingredient that doesn't need to be there?
    For example: does the citric acid, lemon, and ascorbic acid all need to be put in, or is just one needed?
    Also is the ground cinnamon needed?

    Thanks for all your help!

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    741

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Not trying to be mean, but, Nutra-Bee is not available in smaller quantities for a hobbyist, like myself. Consequently, I have no interest in what Keith Jarret has to say about bee nutrition.

    I do find his coy way of communicating to come across as suspiscious, though.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Clinton County, IN, USA
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    Not trying to be mean, but, Nutra-Bee is not available in smaller quantities for a hobbyist, like myself. Consequently, I have no interest in what Keith Jarret has to say about bee nutrition.

    I do find his coy way of communicating to come across as suspiscious, though.
    Maybe you should read the whole thread, he does have in smaller quantities

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    > Maybe you should read the whole thread, he does have in smaller quantities

    Well, I have read the entire thread, and Keith says he is not shipping the box and tub sizes at this point.
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    741

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Even if smaller quantities were available, where would you buy it? I can find no mention on the internet of where I might buy Nutra-Bee, if it were ever in stock.

    Mr. Jarret can manage his business anyway he wants and maybe he truly has a deep understanding of bee nutritution, but the cryptic communication in a public forum, plus the dis-interest in supplying product to nothing but big operations doesn't leave me with a good image.

    JMHO
    Last edited by shinbone; 08-12-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSHonda310 View Post
    Is there any ingredient that doesn't need to be there?
    For example: does the citric acid, lemon, and ascorbic acid all need to be put in, or is just one needed?
    Also is the ground cinnamon needed?
    Thanks for all your help!
    LSH, the answer to your first question is I don't know, what I mean by that is, we'll take brewer yeast, is it P41 or P62? Brewers yeast comes in different states of PH levels so we need to know that , Also, Randy has in there soy isolates, is it 82% protein up to 92% protein, the picture I'm try to draw is there are alot of varibles with in a product depending on the manufactor, so if we said I use brewers & soy what else should I use, you can see with out knowing the "CA" or spec sheet it could be hard to answer.

    Citri acid, lemon need to be in there, here again if we knew a little more info on Randy's spec sheet, But, I can tell you this you need to be in the PH range of 4.25-4.75 that what you should shoot for, thats what the lemon & citri acid is in there for.

    Ground cinnamon.... I've seen folks on both sides of the fence on that one, I myself am on the fence as well, I try not to form an opinion and rush to judgment until I see some more.

    Nutra bee sub comes in at 20% plus protein & 8% fats.
    Keith
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
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    3,161

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Shin, two more weeks then we we be caught up.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    but the cryptic communication in a public forum, JMHO
    lol... now that made my day. Oh... and thanks for the kind words GB, maybe I'm a little short & direct, but my main goal was to get the info in the keepers hands so they could then go out and make an informed decision on how to make ther own sub or buy. So, in my last post I said i have 20% protein in nutra bee BUT so does ultra bee..... so know that we have come full circle and mine BTW has Tryptophan in it!
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    741

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    "Shin, two more weeks then we we be caught up. "

    Sounds good.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    340

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    BTW, Tryptophan is in brewers yeast and soy products.

    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    BTW, Tryptophan is in brewers yeast and soy products.

    Joe
    But at what levels Joe? That's the whole heart of most of this thread, getting the right amounts. I think David said the same thing, but he had seal liver ( chop chop boys). This is what seperates the one's that are just throwing mud on the wall verses the ones that are aiming at the target.

    P.S. thier's alot of mud slinging going on out there.
    Last edited by Keith Jarrett; 08-12-2013 at 03:21 PM.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    340

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Sorry Keith, I thought you were suggesting other supplements did not contain tryptophan. That's what caught my attention as tryptophan is a pretty ubiquitous amino acid when it comes to feed ingredients that supply protein.

    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

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