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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,864

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    I can't really say I found this thread educational. Sorry.

    In the end, amino acids are important, and so is protein content and fat content. Some amino acids will cause limiting factors. How do you tell which one is limiting? How do you tell the protein content? Either take the producer's word on the facts and do some math, or order an expensive test. Too much work for me. I suspect most hobby beekeepers are in the same boat. If I had 500 colonies to feed and dropped a few tens of thousands on feed per year, that might be a different story.

    Each producer spends plenty of money on research to make their formula better. I'll gladly pay them for that, rather than do my own "research" all over again.

    As far as making my own (from scratch), I'll follow someone else's formula, then maybe make slight changes, but if it involves starting from total scratch to calculate the composition of amino acids, I'm better off purchasing a commercial product and following their instructions, then compare with a competitor and see which one gets consumed faster.

    Thanks for the formula Lauri. I might end up trying it this year. Might end up trying Randy Oliver's too. But if the formula isn't shared, I'm not likely to create my own.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,963

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    I am feeding Ultra Bee now to all colonies without honey supers. Why? We are in a great pollen flow right now and the hives with supers are packing it in. So I inspected the colonies that don't have honey supers. Some of them have no stores - neither nectar or pollen. And so the syrup bucket and UB went to them. Others don't have as much pollen as I'd like them to have this time of year - thinking about food for baby bees next spring. I have no clue as to if the UB is consumed now or stored. I don't really care so long as I have healthy winter bees and adequate pollen for next spring. What I am finding is that colonies whose populations are on the low side are not gathering much nectar/pollen. An unintended consequence to my stealing brood six weeks ago to beef up my production colonies? Hmmmm. The colonies that are short pollen are all over the UB.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  3. #223
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
    Posts
    187

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    I can't find pollen supplement here in Germany, so this thread has been VERY educational for me. I have made up a batch and fed it to the bees. A five frame nuc ate 1 pound in five days, if this carries on it will cost me a fortune. :-)

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Maybe I missed it in the 12 pages of back and forth comments.

    Was there "formula" that was some what agreed upon? I.f. 50 lbs of brewers year, x lbs of of soy flour, x cups of oil(what type), x lbs of sugar, and what misc vitamins....

    If there wasn't. Is there a agreed upon additions that need to be made to Ultra Bee? i.e. Ground oats etc....

    Finally, does anyone have a reasonable priced list of soy flour/yeast providers in 50lb bags?

    Thanks,

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,658

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    Was there "formula" that was some what agreed upon?
    Dream on! Agree, on Beesource?!
    Regards, Barry

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,714

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    > Was there "formula" that ...

    Did you see Lauri's recipe in post #15?


    >
    that was some what agreed upon?

    Not precisely!
    That is why the thread has 220+ posts!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Well.... Let me rephrase that to say "generally accepted".....

    Realistically, I can dump ultra bee in a pot of sugar sugar water until it looks like thick peanut butter then slap in on the hive. But "should" I is the question.

    But more the point for me, in the South... I'll probably be making sugar blocks vs patties. Since SHB have a harder time dealing with them. That or I need to make an automated extruder that squirts out a little patty at at time.

    FYI, I mark this as a timestamped patent for any of you idea grubbers out there.. ((LOL))

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,875

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Since you mentioned it, here is a recipe I came up with for fortified sugar bricks. I don't think it was disputed too much.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...r-sugar-blocks

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,864

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    Well.... Let me rephrase that to say "generally accepted".....
    Right . . .

    Is there anything that's "generally accepted" in beekeeping? Let alone pollen patty recipies, one of the most closely guarded secrets of any beekeeping operation (with the exception of Lauri and Randy Oliver).

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    But more the point for me, in the South... I'll probably be making sugar blocks vs patties. Since SHB have a harder time dealing with them.
    I've never had SHB issues with feeding pollen patties to well populated hives before April 1. After that the nest starts to spread out a little, and can have some difficulties fighting off SHB. At least, what I've seen.

    I've slapped on a 2 lb patty on the top bars of a hive containing 4 frames of brood in the end of February without any issues.

  10. #230
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,048

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Special kind of hit on it, you need to look at amino acids in two contexts. You need to look at the essential amino acids bees require and the amino acids they're mRNA codes for when producing proteins. Many proteins have amino acids that can be interchangeable so optimizing amino acid availability can help if you know which amino acids are preferred. tRNA's can also play a role in protein expression but I don't believe diet can influence those populations.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    polk Oregon USA
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Lauri if you are still looking for a source for brewers yeast you might try tpi. They are a feed supplement supplier in oregon and washington. They sell a very large variety of protein including dried brewers yeast at whole sale prices. That's where I get my yeast from in 50 lb bags.

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,714

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Here is the website for TPI. Manufacturing is in Madera CA, and with offices in Hubbard OR (between Portland and Salem) and in Twin Falls ID.

    They seem to have a strong emphasis on lot tracking.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  13. #233
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cordova, TN, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    But I find him quite helpful if you're willing to dig a little, same for Joe and their interchange was very interesting to me.
    I came here to look up Lauri's pollen patty recipe, but couldn't help responding to what I see on this older thread.

    I'm certainly glad Keith is doing well in his business. But just imagine, Keith, if you were a good salesman, how much more business you'd get. A good salesman doesn't expect his customers to "dig". A good saleman will bend over backward to show how his product is better, but all I hear from you on this thread is to "go here" or "go there" to read what someone else has posted. A good salesman makes it easy for a potential customer to make a decision. You may be the best guy on the phone and in person, but what comes across online is laziness (to provide the requested pictures or information) and as a result, condescension. Keith, you should either learn how to respond online properly as a salesman, or outsource responding on this forum to some employee who does know how.

    If you get frustrated answering the same questions over and over, put up a web page which answers those questions, then refer people to the web page and the answer. But please don't tell them to go "look at my site". Give them a hyperlink and make it easy. I will assure you that if you do this, you'll get much less pushback from people on this forum, who can do great word-of-mouth advertising FOR YOU if your product stacks up to the competition and you make their lives easy.

  14. #234
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,289

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Yikes!!! lol
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cordova, TN, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Yikes!!! lol
    Yes, I think upon re-reading that I came across quite harsh and I sincerely apologize. But please take the advice to heart if you can. I truly believe your business could be much better.

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