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Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

86K views 235 replies 43 participants last post by  beesohappy 
#1 ·
Has anyone had first hand experience with this type of product as to whether or not it could or would stimulate brood rearing at this time of year? Say this product and combination of sugar ayrup @ 1:1 ratio.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I'm glad it's not just me. Sorry Keith, but your posts tell me nothing.

I am about the pickiest person you'll ever meet when it comes to nutrition..for myself or my critters. I expect nothing short of spectacular results, and I have to say, I am quite satisfied with my protein recipe. It may not be 100% balanced in the opinion of some, but remember: It is meant to supplement natural feed, not replace it. I'm not a chemist or trained professional..but this recipe simply works for me. And although I have more hives than most hobbyists, I am not commercial. My bees don't rely just on my feed alone.

If someone has a better recipe, they will have to prove it by photos and facts, not just talk.

Remember, I am not trying to sell anything. I have no reason to promote product. I get no kick back from Mann Lake, LOL. They keep taking my money just fine.
 
#44 ·
Yeah know..... I'm giving you Randy Olivers web site?? I am much better with a hive tool in my hand than I am at this computer.


2. Mann Lake’s use of deGroot’s amino acid ratio is not quite accurate. deGroot did not specify percentages of amino acids–he specified a “normalized” ratio of amino acid weights relative to the amount of tryptophan. deGroot never implied that a formula should be 1.00% trypotophan–rather, divide all other amino acid weights (or percentages) by the weight/percentage of tryptophan, to obtain their relative value. For example, brewers yeast runs about 0.62% tryptophan and 1.7% threonine. So you’d divide 1.7 by 0.62 to obtain a ratio of 2.74:1 threonine:tryptophan, which is close to deGroot’s suggested ratio of 3:1
 
#42 ·
Waggle, there was a report this spring, "Dan Rather buzz kill" on that report there was a farmer Perzes in Crows landing his bees were pretty much dead, I set bees on either side of that orchard the farmers are not happy. The youtube video under "2013 almond pollination" was at crow landing of my bees. Give me a second and I will look up some more pics.
 
#43 ·
If you are so confident that Nutra-Bee is the superior product, why is it that you feel a need to resort to calling someone else a bone head? :eek:

Beyond that, Lauri is not selling a competing product, plus its my understanding that you do not offer sub products for sale in the smaller lots that are the subject of this thread.

Lauri posted several photos that clearly show brood in fine detail, and you criticized the brood quality with one word, "Dry". When invited to post similar photos of your own, you referred us to a general statement of:

"look up Nutra Bee on you tube. almonds 2013"

Well, no matter how good your videos may be, the image detail of a video will never come close to the detail in Lauri's photo. So, once again, if you really believe you have the better product, post some brood photos of equivalent detail, and show us.
 
#46 · (Edited)
As far as the "Bone head" pics, you get this alot in bees, somebody takes a shot at there best hives but it doest really tell the true indicator of the whole yard. This remark was not at anyone, I'm sorry if someone took it that way. I go off of how the yard of bees look not indivual hives, it's easy to cherry pic the best for a photo op.


Here's a shaker in Jan this is the true proof of sub feeding.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/100_1431-1.jpg
 
#47 ·
I make my own sub. I tried adding ingredients to commercially availible products to get them to perform to my standards. I was never happy with the results. I started a thread and posted the basics of the recipe I was starting with. I don't remember anyone presenting a concrete answers more like subtle hints.

I think the correct answers are out there they are just mixed in with the wrong ones. If the answer to what nutritional value Pollen Sub should have could be correctly answered figuring out the rest is mostly math.
 
#50 · (Edited)
Here is a photo of a cherry tomato plant I'm growing. I posted it on my facebook page so people could see how it produces and what the growth habit is like in a hanging basket.
Sure it is a good plant. It has a saucer glued to the pot to help retain water. I have a few more outside without a saucer that don't look as good. But what would that photo tell you? It could use more water? I got lucky with one plant? I'm trying to make myself look importaint?
Here you see a fair example of what this variety, Sweet Baby Girl tomato is like.



Compared to Bush Early Girl:


Or Sweet Cluster:


You could make any conclusions you want. But the fact is, the photos are just for your information so you can make an informed choice. I don't care if you love tomatoes. I don't care if you hate tomatoes. I do not want to teach you how to grow tomatoes.I do not want to sell you tomatoes. But I have grown all types over the years and am happy to take a few minutes so share info about my results.

Not cherry picking a photo that is above and beyond the norm.

The photo I posted with the brood was taken to show why I like black rite cell and how nice healthy, clean, newly drawn frames look. How you can feed to continue growth in nucs after the flow. Not 'cherry picking' a photo to show brood, royal jelly, or lack of it according to Keith.

I think the problem we all have with Keith's posts is that he is selling the product he is promoting-which creates a conflict of interest. No one else on Beesource has endorsed his product. With all the scammers these days, it's pretty easy to disregard anyone who can't or won't give up more information.

Detailed nutritional breakdown of ingredients, prices, ordering info and business contact info would be a good start.
I'd be willing to try a new product, but won't bite on blue skys from someone I don't know.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510
 
#61 ·
Since I am the OP and I asked the question....Look at the title to the thread..."Products like" I don't know or care at the moment who's product is best. I came back to beekeeping last year from being out of it for over 20 years...20 years ago I never fed a pollen substitute, I never had a nuc. I split hives and they raise a queen and did fine. I have some now that are a little slow and I was just curious to see it this "TYPE" of product works. If you say your product works to aid in brood rearing in the fall as I asked, then Great! If Lauri says the product that she uses works, then that is Great too!
This thread was not made to start a war, but I make no apologies, it does answer my question even though you tried to go through some round about back door to say that this"type" product works. You simply could have said "Yes, these product do work but I like XYZ brand better than Mann Lake", then you could have posted your reasons, and you would not have looked like a villain or a politician, or bonehead, or whatever else anyone thinks of you.

My question has been answers and could have been answered without all of the grade school drama of people trying to sound like something they are not.
 
#56 · (Edited)
What I was hopeing for was a visual comparision of what one considers good vs bad.......
GMC, it takes two-three months later is when you really see the results of sub feeding, feeding in the fall the following early spring is where to judge weather you had success or not.


Why this is important is longevity, you cant tell how long a bee is going to live from a picture of brood, but, if you come back after winter and take a look in early spring it gives you better gauge. How to get longer living bees in great diverity in your sub along with other things such as 24-methyene cholesterol.
 
#54 ·
"I think the problem we all have with Keith's posts is that he is selling the product he is promoting-which creates a conflict of interest."

you hit the nail right on the head Lauri he is a salesman and he can't have people sharing info on how to make their own stuff and avoid buying it from him. i've been following your facebook page and i like what i've been seeing :thumbsup: keep it up and keep sharing the great info.
 
#55 ·
j.kuder;984209 he can't have people sharing info on how to make their own stuff and avoid buying it from him. [/QUOTE said:
Couldn't bee futher from the truth, what i've been tring to do is educate some here on what to look for in a sub, like the value of Tryptophan, but once again it went nowhere. As far as selling sub we are swamed at the moment. We are ONLY shipping in semi load lot at this time.Best of luck to all.
 
#57 ·
#65 ·
I know there's a shirt in this somewhere! Keith, bus, sub, secret ingredients . . . :D How many should I order on the first run?

"I think the problem we all have with Keith's posts is that he is selling the product he is promoting-which creates a conflict of interest."

I know this is often how it looks on the surface, but it just ain't so. If anyone of you were to spend time actually talking to Keith about this topic, you would have a very different understanding. Look, he often gives you information to consider for making sub. See http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-like-Mann-Lake-Ultra-bee&p=983905#post983905
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-like-Mann-Lake-Ultra-bee&p=983926#post983926
and other older threads. Keith wants you to do your homework and has said all the information is out there, as Mbeck also mentioned. I would suggest to anyone who feels they are not getting straight answers from Keith, call him. He'll talk to you till it's bedtime! :D
 
#66 ·
Goldprospector,

The short answer to your question is yes, feeding syrup and sub will help stimulate brood rearing. Do your bees need it is a good question too. The honey bee colony functions as a “unit” in terms of a living organism. Most subs will work fine for short periods of time, especially in most hobbyist situations where there is relatively little competition for resources and short breaks between natural pollen availability. If a sub is just a little short on a nutrient it simply limits the efficiency of the sub, but for most hobbyists what’s a few extra cents or dollars lost? If the deficiency in the sub is more critical, it takes weeks to deplete the resources of the colony “unit”.

Large scale commercial beekeeping is a whole other situation entirely. Bees are dependent on the beekeeper, so the diet better be right as it may be the only source of food or nutrients for a sustained period of time. Most diets are pretty good overall, but there is always room for improvement. There is plenty of new research and insight, which is why it boggles my mind when beekeepers cite DeGroot’s 1953 research. The next time you go to your doctor, please ask him or her to pull out their 1953 medical guide to determine the proper treatment for your visit today. :)

Thanks,
Joe
 
#84 ·
There is plenty of new research and insight, which is why it boggles my mind when beekeepers cite DeGroot’s 1953 research. The next time you go to your doctor, please ask him or her to pull out their 1953 medical guide to determine the proper treatment for your visit today. :)

Thanks,
Joe
Joe are you implying that Degroot's protein profile is wrong or incorrect ?
 
#70 · (Edited)
That is true Joe, but surely you would agree that much of what we call "current" research is built upon that which is "old" and true? Is there really that major of shift away from that of DeGroot's findings? I think there needs to be a proper balance between the two, old and new.
 
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