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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rowan County NC
    Posts
    347

    Default Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Has anyone had first hand experience with this type of product as to whether or not it could or would stimulate brood rearing at this time of year? Say this product and combination of sugar ayrup @ 1:1 ratio.
    "You have to put down the ducky if you wanna play the Saxophone!" Mr .Hoot

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Polk County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Personally, I wouldnt use it this time of year due to SHB. I have fed is successfully in January/February, however when anything else starts blooming its pretty much ignored.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Clinton County, Michigan USA
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    I have used it during dearth conditions up here, Michigan. They eat it way faster than they do during the spring, but obviously the hive populations are bigger this time of year. I also don't have SHB to contend with. I should be feeding right now, but I don't want to remove all my supers. Also, the issue of having to pay for it. It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of goldenrod honey yield with and without feeding.
    9th year beekeeper, about 20 hives.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,834

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    muskratcreekhoney, I was wondering if they would actually use it, or chew it up and drag it out of the hive, but it sounds like they do use it from your experience. I was thinking of trying it, I have about 40 lbs. of it in a bag leftover from the spring feeding, but the goldenrod is about to start anyway and they'll be bringing in lots of pollen from that, so they would probably ignore it anyway.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,815

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    My nucs are going through it like gangbusters right now. they are definitely eating it, not carrying it out. I'm also feeding them fondant. they are drawing wax and the queens are laying well [these are new queens].

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,834

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    camero7, just curious if you are in a dearth right now in your area?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Clinton County, Michigan USA
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    If we would have had more of a dry summer I would have considered it this year, but I'm unwilling to strip off supers with the chance of farmers letting the mint and alfalfa bloom. The Ultrabee says not to use with supers on. I would guess that is the same for all pollen substitutes?
    9th year beekeeper, about 20 hives.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Clinton County, IN, USA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    Not trying to be mean, but, Nutra-Bee is not available in smaller quantities for a hobbyist, like myself. Consequently, I have no interest in what Keith Jarret has to say about bee nutrition.

    I do find his coy way of communicating to come across as suspiscious, though.
    Maybe you should read the whole thread, he does have in smaller quantities

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,980

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    > Maybe you should read the whole thread, he does have in smaller quantities

    Well, I have read the entire thread, and Keith says he is not shipping the box and tub sizes at this point.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    834

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Even if smaller quantities were available, where would you buy it? I can find no mention on the internet of where I might buy Nutra-Bee, if it were ever in stock.

    Mr. Jarret can manage his business anyway he wants and maybe he truly has a deep understanding of bee nutritution, but the cryptic communication in a public forum, plus the dis-interest in supplying product to nothing but big operations doesn't leave me with a good image.

    JMHO
    Last edited by shinbone; 08-12-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    but the cryptic communication in a public forum, JMHO
    lol... now that made my day. Oh... and thanks for the kind words GB, maybe I'm a little short & direct, but my main goal was to get the info in the keepers hands so they could then go out and make an informed decision on how to make ther own sub or buy. So, in my last post I said i have 20% protein in nutra bee BUT so does ultra bee..... so know that we have come full circle and mine BTW has Tryptophan in it!
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    834

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    "Shin, two more weeks then we we be caught up. "

    Sounds good.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Litchfield, CT, USA
    Posts
    430

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    The following is a list of Essential Amino Acids of a complete protein. This list can be found with a simple google search. These are optimal proportions to support the biological functions of humans and animals. The issue here is doing the research and studies to produce a product that has these proportions. It is easier to make a product that has all these EAAs but not nesessarily in the right proportions. Most hobbiest or even sideliners probably don't have the money or maybe interest in getting a nutritional profile done on their kitchen brew sub. But hey I could be wrong. I have not used Keith's product but I am sure he spent some money to make a decent product and I would like to try it.

    Although more expensive I would use nutritional yeast instead of brewers yeast in a home brew sub. It is a complete protein.

    All #s are mg/g of protein.

    Tryptophan 7
    Threonine 27
    Isoleucine 25
    Leucine 55
    Lysine 51
    Methionine+Cystine 25
    Phenylalanine+Tyrosine 47
    Valine 32
    Histidine 18

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    David,

    Glad to see your post. I see the same thing in that methionine tends to be the limiting amino acid when using a Yeast and Soy based diet. This is true if applying DeGroot’s ratios, although I am not sure about methionine. If you look at the analyses of composite samples of natural pollen, methionine is often lower. But a 50/50 blend of yeast and soy meets the other requirements nicely. I have an Excel table around here some place that I need to dig up and see if I can get posted. Then there is the matter of vitamins and minerals, which are the “keys” that allow bees to drive the metabolic pathways to process the protein they ingest.

    Bernhardheuvel,

    I like your last link of the three you posted. It has some very clear and concise values!

    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    helenwood,tn.usa
    Posts
    100

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Now thats educating!!!
    thanks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,602

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Glad to see this thread producing some real information for beekeepers of every level.

    Since you brought up the egg ingredient, I will ask this:
    After viewing Randy's recipe, I considered adding the egg or egg yolk to my mix. He uses dried egg.
    I have plenty of extra eggs due to my hens and turkeys, but why dry the egg if it is just going to be re hydrated in the mix? Did Randy use dried egg for convenience sake or is there a reason?
    No, I won't try to contact him. I am sure he gets overwhelmed with questions, especially now since he is the focus of that Time article.
    My concern with is spoilage. Any thoughts about using fresh eggs?
    One note: In the summer and fall months, my Patties are usually consumed within a week's time before being reapplied. I could put more on the hive, but limit the amount so it is always somewhat fresh.



    I am also looking for another source for 50# sacks of Brewers Yeast. Any contact info you can share? (I dont care for Mann Lake's since they switched suppliers.)

    Heres an update..email from Ed at Mann Lake:

    Lauri,
    The brewer’s yeast we have now is different than what I sold you last year. I’m going to send you a sample. Also, I’m including analysis of a comparison of brewer’s yeast and Bee Pro.



    For what it’s worth, Bee Pro does have a higher protein content and is consumed faster. Consumption is probably because of the sugars that are in Bee Pro. We don’t add sugar. It’s what’s already there.



    Later this fall, Randy Oliver, who’s been doing feed trial for us, will have a write up regarding his findings. Not sure where they’ll be published, but once I have a copy, I’ll forward it.

    *****
    Looks like I'l be ordering from Mann Lake again.
    Last edited by Lauri; 08-13-2013 at 03:25 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,980

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    I have an Excel table around here some place that I need to dig up and see if I can get posted.
    Posting XLS files are "allowed" by the forum software, but sometimes members seem to have issues with the built in attachment feature. If you do have an Excel file available to post and it won't work correctly, don't give up. Barry may be able to help, or you can PM me. I just tried a test XLS file and got it to upload OK.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,980

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    I see the same thing in that methionine tends to be the limiting amino acid when using a Yeast and Soy based diet. This is true if applying DeGroot’s ratios, although I am not sure about methionine. If you look at the analyses of composite samples of natural pollen, methionine is often lower. But a 50/50 blend of yeast and soy meets the other requirements nicely. I have an Excel table around here some place that I need to dig up and see if I can get posted.
    The Excel table the Joe referenced above is available for download below.

    I am posting this on behalf of Joe as there are still unresolved "issues" with his account settings that affect uploading attachments.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,265

    Default Re: Products like Mann Lake Ultra bee.

    Thank you for listing the resources in post #110

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