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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    Default Will the workers make a new queens

    Hi,

    On June 23 I installed a carnolian queen to an Italian hive. She was accepted and layed lots of eggs, then 3 weeks later she was gone and supercells were made and a new queen emerged about 3 weeks later. By this time the hive turned extremely aggressive and I could not do a thorough inspection to find the new virgin queen. Anyway, today I inspected the hive, the population is more Carnolian (lots of dark bees), but no eggs or brood, no stores despite being fed and no queen. So, I transferred a frame with new eggs, and open brood in hope, that in case the new queen did not make it back, the bee make a new queen. So I am wondering, if the new queen is on her mating flight, will the workers try to make a new queen?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
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    713

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    If she is on her mating flight, then no. That flight doesn't last all that long.
    Try it. What could happen?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    so if I see queen cells then she did not make it back.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
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    713

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    so if I see queen cells then she did not make it back.
    Yes, but remember that the frame of eggs you put in today will be useless for queen rearing after 3 days. If she dies on day 4, they have nothing to make a queen with.

    If you fail to see any new eggs in the hive after a week (you could stand to wait 2 weeks based on your timeline, but it won't hurt to wait 1), put in another frame of eggs and see what they do with it.
    Try it. What could happen?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    2,927

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    I add frames of brood weekly to queenless hives regardless of wether they have queen cells virgin queen or even a suspected newly mated queen. It serves to hold off laying workers, gives them a source of fresh brood to rear queens from and helps keep the population of the colony up a bit better. For queen production you would want to intentionally maintain colonies as they are queenless. Fresh brood also assures there are young bees that perform the task of producing wax and building the queen cells.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
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    1,258

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    one thing I feel needs to be pointed out, Is the time of year, while playing around with colonies to grow a queen and get her producing which can take up to 33 days from egg. Time she is a ticking! old man winter is just around the corner and that hive will need to build numbers and store supplies. According to your time line as best as I can figure the new queen should be laying by no later than the 16th of august. That is the maximum parameter based on the information at hand. I would be inclined to think more between now and the 11th. If you do not have a laying queen by August 16th I would think about either combining that hive with another or purchasing a bred queen. or they may not grow enough to make it through the winter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    3,996

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    If they start queen cells I would either combine them, shake them out or purchase a laying queen immediately. IMO it is too late to make a queen from scratch unless you really know what you are doing. Which I don't.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
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    1,219

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    I had a hive I been trying to get queen right for 4 weeks I don't know what happen but I put a nuc with a good queen on top to day with some paper in between the boxes hope all goes well.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  9. #9

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK View Post
    I had a hive I been trying to get queen right for 4 weeks I don't know what happen but I put a nuc with a good queen on top to day with some paper in between the boxes hope all goes well.
    Always good to have a few nucs around just for this.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    If they start queen cells I would either combine them, shake them out or purchase a laying queen immediately. IMO it is too late to make a queen from scratch unless you really know what you are doing. Which I don't.

    I second. It's risky. If they do raise another queen and she fails to mate you will be really cutting it close.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    65

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    i checked the hive today and indeed they are making a new queen. So the last queen they raised never made it back. There are about 5 supercells. I have contacted my queen supplier and she will check tomorrow if she has a queen available for me. If not, I am going to have to chance it. Last time a queen was raised on another hive, she mated within days of being born.

    So, if I get a new queen, should I destroy the supercells before I install the new queen or after I know the queen has been accepted?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    Before you install the queen destroy the cells or they wont accept your queen.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stockholm, NJ, USA
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    How soon after I destroy the cells should I install the new queen? couple of hours or days?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    You can put her in the hive in her cage immediately after destroying the cells. Look closely for those rogue cells they can be really small and hard to find.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    65

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    I put the new queen in. The bees were very aggressive at me, but I believe it was because it was dusk when I openned their hive. I wont open that hive for another 3 days. That hive is too hot. lol

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stockholm, NJ, USA
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    65

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    Okay, I just checked on the new queen. I did not find her but I noticed she has been laying a storm. Lots of fresh eggs, full frames, both sides. The aggressive bees did not let me do a thorough job. I am concerned they may have used her for her eggs and did away with her. I am intimidated by that hive. I do smoke them but they seem immuned to it, they blow it back at me. lol. If they did away with this queen, that is 4 queens in a row. The original Italian one, the first carnolian, the one they made and this one. I think these bees wants self rule and that is why they are being rebellious. I will check on the queens next week and if she is gone, im going to slowly distribute them amongst other hive.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
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    713

    Default Re: Will the workers make a new queens

    I am concerned they may have used her for her eggs and did away with her
    I had a hive do that once. However, what actually happens is that you miss a queen cell somewhere and after it hatches they throw your pretty storebought queen out the front door. So, if you got all the queen cells and you consistently see fresh (standing on end) eggs, you're fine.

    I will check on the queens next week and if she is gone, im going to slowly distribute them amongst other hive.
    This is what David was talking about earlier. To be fair, I've never done it...but all you need to do is shake that hive out on the ground in your apiary and take their old hive away. They will beg their way into the other hives.
    Try it. What could happen?

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