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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
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    91

    Default Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    This is a hive started from a nuc in june. They are building up, but noticeably slower than the hive right beside it. We had a brief heat wave a few weeks ago where this hive stopped raising young brood, but they've resumed.

    About a month ago I did see one drone with a deformed wing:



    This past weekend I found a good handful of bees in the grass that couldn't fly. Many of them had their wings out on their side (k-wing?), lack of hair, but no visible wing deformations. I know bees suffering from DWV doesn't always result in a deformed wing, and it can damage bees in other ways, but I would have thought at least one of them might have a obviously deformed wing.





    I'm not really seeing mites on the bees, but this one looks like it might have a mite wound:



    Otherwise, there's a good number of healthy bees coming and going at the entrance:

    Last edited by Beekeeping.IsGood.ca; 08-06-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,379

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    "K" wing and deformed wings are two different things. "K" wings are a sign of tracheal mites. Deformed wings are a sign of DWV which is being transmitted by Varroa.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    712

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Check for mites. You might have a high load. If you do, treat really soon before it gets critical.

    http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com...arroaMites.asp
    Try it. What could happen?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,687

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    I would say k wing most likely

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    How does the brood pattern look? If not good, you had better treat the hive.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Sydney, AU
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    I have been speaking to a research scientist who has be working in a government funded research centre who has advised that they are looking at the correlation of GMC (genetically modified crops ) to bee mites and their increase potency to killing Bee's.

    Have you heard of this been mentioned before.
    As i feel that this could have some credibility as since the introduction of GMC the proliferation of diseases and mites infecting bee colonies with deadly consequences

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    I feel the brood pattern has been reasonably good




    I cut off the drone comb on the above comb and found 2 mites in approx 25 cells.

    Shortly after the last message I did find a few bees with deformities:






    But it's been a long time since that where I haven't noticed any unhealthy bees.

    However, I did notice the queen yesterday also has deformity on her upper left abdomen



    The colony isn't the strongest of all but does looks ready for winter. At this point I figure it's probably best to wait till next season to see if there are further signs and consider re-queening?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Beekeeping.IsGood.ca; 09-19-2013 at 10:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Hi,
    Are you right in Toronto or outside of the city?
    I'm just north of the city in Bolton.
    I'm interested in seeing your hive(s)

    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Mostly right in the city, and some on a farm near Burlington.



    It could be possible to meet. Depending on what you're interested in, next season might be better, I likely won't go into my toronto hives again too extensively this year.
    Last edited by Beekeeping.IsGood.ca; 09-19-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    If you just want to see the hives from the outside, there's an event this weekend at my hive location and I'll be there all saturday and sunday.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    I was interested in seeing the bees with the issues, to learn from what they look like.
    And to see how the hive looks as a whole. I've only ever been in my own hives and thought it would be good to see other peoples hives, for comparison.

    but next year would work.
    Do you belong to the Toronto beekeepers Association, that has the meetings at the Kortright center? I went to their last meeting for the first time.

    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Spanish Fort, AL
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Sounds just like the description given in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wy2PG_MB4Y

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    The bees in the grass and the k-wing fit for the video, but I don't see any mention of the craters in the body of the bees and the queen. So I'm wondering if it might be both or just DWV causing the k-wing as well. Bees with DWV will certainly crawl around in the grass too.



    I wanted to collect some to do dissection like the tracheal mite video mentions but I haven't been able to find any more with k-wings since my first post.

    Does anybody know if tracheal mites are affected by a break in the brood cycle like varroa mites are? What happens when there is no young bees for the tracheal mites to move to? Just a few weeks before the original post, it was super hot and the queen had stopped laying for a spell.

    Glen, I don't make it out to the TBA meeting very often as they are difficult to access without a car, but they are often a good time. I agree it's always nice to get a different perspective on the way different people manage their hives.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    What camera do you use to get those nice clear pictures?


    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    It's a Pentax Optio W80. I find most point and shoot cameras have pretty good macro capabilities. The best part is being able to keep it in your pocket and have it ready all the time.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Hi,
    just wondering how you made out with the bees? did they pull through OK?

    I found a cup of bees with DWV on the ground outside one of my three hives about a week ago. they were kicked out.
    I noticed them just before doing my second OA vaporization. One more OA treatment this weekend and will be done.
    Freaked me out when I saw them.









    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    DWV is always much easier to spot at the end of the season. There's more of it at the end of season and now that it's cold they can't carry them out as far or the bees with DWV can't walk away.

    After the initial posts there weren't many obvious signs of really bad mites. These are my last notes for the season for this hive.

    As far as I can gather from asking people the big dents in the body are not from DWV. It's been suggested they were lightly crushed shortly after emergence. I suppose that's possible. At least in the case of the queen it wouldn't have been my fault as I purchased her as part of a nuc.
    Last edited by Beekeeping.IsGood.ca; 11-09-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,719

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Fascinating video Crsswift70, much thanks for posting it.

    We (supposedly) do not have tracheal mites in my country, but I do from time to time see bees with the symptoms described in that video so next time i'll do the dissection as they described.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SLC, UT
    Posts
    219

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    OP, I had a very similar problem last spring. Same behavior, but no deformed wings. I collected samples and sent it off the the bee lab, ended up being nosema apis.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ghlight=nosema

    Hope you get it figured out.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Handful of bees in the grass that can't fly. DWV, Tracheal mites, another virus?

    Thanks Kincade! I will certainly keep nosema in mind if something similar occurs next year.

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