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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    206

    Default New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    I tend to be perhaps too scientific in whatever I get involved with so naturally I looked at a days' deposit on a sticky board (actually a piece of 5" wide masking tape) under a stereo microscope. No mites- that was a primary concern. One dead larvae. Two tiny snails 0.050" long. The thing of concern is the high presence of what appear to be light brown rice grains made up of three segments, kind of like three balls stuck together. The three segments total about 0.024" long by 0.008" diameter (0.610mm x .203mm). One of these things was made up of 10 segments. They are not alive and at x450 show nothing but transparency.

    Does anyone know what I'm looking at? Bee poop? Poop from something nasty? Or should I just ignore it and put my microscope away?

    North NJ, Alt. 385'

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Waterville, NY
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    Sounds like wax moth "beans" but will not commit to that. Got a photo?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    206

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    I've got good photos but after two hours of trying I was unable to post any photo of any size or source. I'll try again when I have more time.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Jamesville, NY
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    wax.jpg

    I think beemilk has it. Do they look like this?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,083

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    For me its easier to post the pics to another site, then post the link here. That way you can use a good size, & resolution.
    Dan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    206

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    55f2f453-f398-44bb-bb54-65e81ece7223_zps53804fd6.jpg

    Found the secret of photo posting!. Diam of unknowns is about 0.008"; but what are they?

    Pete AI2V

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,083

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    I think you're looking at pollen pellets.
    Dan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    206

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    Dan-
    Being a new beek I hadn't even considered something so simple; here's hoping you are correct! Put me in front of a microscope and I'll see all sorts of things of no importance.

    Tnx, Pete

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Waterville, NY
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    I think my identification, wax moth droppings, is correct. Definitely not pollen pellets. I just posted another thread in the Bee Forum entitled "Pollen Pellet at 30X" (a man with a stereoscope has a different perspective on the world)
    Last edited by beemilk; 08-08-2013 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    2,697

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    That's frass, if I had to guess Lepidoptera.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    OK, lets go with the moth frass; it's a healthy hive, what should I be doing about it?

    Pete

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,083

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    In a strong healthy hive you don't do anything to control moths the bees do.
    If there aren't enough bees to fill the boxes, space can be reduced.
    Dan

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    you don't see any wax moths crawling around? My guess is you get some first instars hatching dropping some frass and probably getting removed before you even notice them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morris Plains, NJ USA
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    206

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    Just did a full inspection- no damage seen but perhaps 50 half inch light brown larvae squirming around eating the pollen patty that was on top of the frames. Clearly I got rid of the patty and today I'll place a new patty on top of a piece of screen and in a top feeder. Since these larvae like confined spaces I'm removing that environment with the screen. Daily inspections will follow.

    Can I assume that these are not wax moths but just some other relatively harmless moth? Would it be worth a small effort to build some sort of moth trap with an ultraviolet LED to attract these moths at night?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Greenwich, NY, USA
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    If you have small larvae crawling around on a protein patty, I would bet they are actually small hive beetle (SHB) larvae. There are lots of pictures online to show the difference between SHB and wax moth larvae. Basically, the SHB will have spines along the dorsum and will have 6 "feet" at one end of the larva. They use these to kind of pull themselves along to move.

    Control can go from don't worry be happy to lots of traps and chemicals. In the north with the harsh winter, they tend not to be the problem they are in the South where the ground does not freeze.

    Chris Cripps
    Greenwich, NY
    chris@betterbee.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    2,697

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    Wax moths love protein patties too but typically it's shb that get into them.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    North Liberty, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?

    Almost certainly wax moth frass from your description. I did a post several years ago with photos on my blog with what I thought perhaps were droppings from roaches but the segmented ones are likely the moths.

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