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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    928

    Default How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Just a survey...

    1) How many hives do you run?

    2) How much workshop floorspace are you using?

    3) How many square feet of honey room space do you use?

    4) Do you build you own wooden ware?

    5) Which machines are you using?

    Comments on each question and related issues are welcome.


    Thank you, Casey

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    900

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    1) How many hives do you run? 15 to 20

    2) How much workshop floorspace are you using? 250 ft2 - includes space for extraction of honey, storage of some of the equipment, storage of jars whcih we buy in bulk and a workspace, bottling area.

    3) How many square feet of honey room space do you use? about 1/3 of this area. We don't keeo honey in large containers for long and prefer to bottle as quickly as possible.

    4) Do you build you own wooden ware? no - only assemble

    5) Which machines are you using? 4 frame extractor

    We produce about 2000 to 2300 kg of honey per year. We also sell nuc's - small numbers only.
    We use an Electric uncapping knife and could do with a larger extractor ( but won't go there anymore)

    Comments on each question and related issues are welcome.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Big Thank you, max2. I did not realize people got away with such small footage! I'm about to get on stage and pitch my business plan to a group of venture capitalists, so I thought that I should ask for pros & cons regarding shop area and honey room area.

    A 40-year beekeeper gave me some forklift, truck, and location advice this morning. His quick answer regarding floorspace was 2,000 square feet (combined wood shop and honey room), but more (up to ~3,600 sq ft) if you found a lower price on a larger shop, as it all gets used sooner or later. He likes the idea of being able to work on the trucks indoors.

    I think wood shop space depends on how many and which machines we end up using. I think I have a closer handle on that than the honey room part. I've drawn the wood shop blueprints. I probably do need to go visit a few honey rooms real soon. I expect to use several clarifying tanks, as some of our customers are perhaps more fussy than the typical Aussie (I lived in NSW in 1980). I suppose an automatic uncapper machine will be in order in one to three years. I expect to produce honey-in-the-comb, chunk honey in a jar of liquid honey, liquid honey, and mead.

    I'm not entirely confident that I know honey room layouts for different production levels yet. That is why I started this thread.

    To me a honey room is more of a necessary evil than a "wish list" item...but I need ideas on hive numbers-to-honey room capacity (and hence square footage) info. I'll run 750 to 1,000 hives per employee most of the time. I do not have a honey room currently, and it will be a bother more than a "golden reward", as honey production promises only so much return-on-total-labor-hours, but there will be excess sooner than later with that many bees, so I gotta have it. Oh, D@^^!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    900

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Hi kilocharlie,

    I'm in a different size then you are.
    I had about 35 years to think about a lay-out before I retired from my buisness and could spend pretty well as much time with bees as like to.
    My background is in engineering and designing our little set-up was as much fun as using it.

    All the best with your venture!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,364

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    I'm a seriuos woodworker. I have 1200 sf of shop space with a 600 sf loft above half of it. i have large commercial machinery, planer, two jointers, four bandsaws, two radial arm saws, tablesaw, shapers, etc. This is not for bee stuff, just general cabinetmaking and joinery. I do use it for bee stuff, but you can get by on much less. A good tablesaw is the main item you need with a good fence.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Thanks for the input, Ross. You are strong on band saws the way I'm strong on table saws...I have 4 of them so I don't have to change setups (I try to only move my 12" saw, but occasionally I swap out a dado) and my frame parts always come out the same size down to about +/-.002". I will be adding a 24" planer for milling our own lumber, but that might not go in the shop. I'll probably put it in the kiln room when it isn't in use.

    I'm making a large custom finger box joint saw, and a number of smaller router tables for notching parts. Each router table has a custom push block/vise for a specific notching task.

    I also have to figure for a wax rendering / foundation making area.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,364

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    http://www.myoldtools.com/boxjoint/

    Casey, I sold this old box joint machine a while ago. Might give you some ideas.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Old machines are cool in their brutal strength and over-buildt tendencies. Something with that much metal ought to cut 100 parts at a time, though. Thank you! Great photos!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Palm beach Florida USA
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Cool looking machine reminds me of some of the 100 year old machines I used to work with. One had a 5' flywheel turning a giant leather belt you stopped with a foot brake if something went wrong and often did. I honestly can't even tell what yours does but I still like it.

    Gene

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,843

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    1) How many hives do you run? 50-100, 30-50 at the end of winter, 100+ in fall

    2) How much workshop floorspace are you using? 450

    3) How many square feet of honey room space do you use? 400, about 2.5 tons of honey

    4) Do you build you own wooden ware? some, most

    5) Which machines are you using? two table saws, one radial arm

    My shop measures about 1400 so both the honey and wood working overflow into the parking garage.

    >Comments on each question and related issues are welcome.

    Always plan for twice as big and twice as much time. I could run many more hives with the shop I have on hand. My beesiness exists because of my shop. In 1978 my friend spotted that one end it of had a floor drain. He needed somewhere to park his honey extracting equipment. He said "Let's build an extracting room." Here I am today. He disappeared leaving it all behind. Herb Fields, where are you?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,802

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    (1) # hives 125-175 I sell 100-125 5 frame nucs, mostly in 10 frame equipment each year.

    (2) floorspace 400sqft Could be larger

    (3) honey room space 350 sqft I sell bees, I don't specialize in honey. I only get honey from brood stock, approx 100-150 gallons one 9 frame motorized radial extractor.

    (4) build woodenware yes, everything except frames. I sell 100-125 complete hives each year and I build everything except frames.

    (5) Machines 7 table saws, 1 radial arm saw, 2 sliding miter saws 3 surface planers, 1 jointer, 2 sanders. My table saws are set and I do not move the fence on them. Boards move from one saw to the next, Two saws are set up with dado blades, (1 for box joint, and 1 for groove for side rail of bottom board) 1 rough planer, one set on 3/4 inch for finish, one for everything else.

    cchoganjr

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    347

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Cchoganjr I am envious of you shop tools setup!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,802

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman43 View Post
    Cchoganjr I am envious of you shop tools setup!
    I have bought almost everything off Craigslist, and paid very little for them. I watch an item I would like to have, and if it doesn't sell in 30 days, I make an offer, and most of the time they take it. I have some nice tools and very little in them.

    I sell 125 hives each year, so I have to make 125 deep boxes, 125 bottom boards, 125 inner covers and 125 tops. I also make about 50 shallow honey supers, and 25, 5 frame nucs. It is just so much easier to move from one saw to the next (doing several peices at each saw) than it is to change the fence each time.

    cchoganjr

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: How Many Square Feet Shopspace?

    Thank you, guys! Your input really helps. I'm definitely seeing a pattern here.

    I know I'll be making some behemoth specialty machines, and am looking into the fully automatic conveyor systems for processing the honey. 2,000 square feet appears a minimum to my needs, preferably closer to 3,000 sq. ft. with wood shop and honey room both considered. I build my own frames, and very much prefer to leave a good setup unaltered, so perhaps as many as 6 table saws are going in, if that doesn't get specialty machines instead. In addition, there is a portable sawmill and a kiln room, plus our power station - a Francis wheel or Pelton wheel driving a generator.

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