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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
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    323

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    I agree wholeheartedly Jeff! I've searched for some data on this, but have not been able to find much. Of course a post-mortem analysis is made much more difficult by the fact that researchers still don't really know what they are looking for. I understand that all CCD tested hives to date have tested positive for IAPV, though it is only considered a CCD marker--not the cause of CCD. As more and more data comes in and is made available to the public (published) it is becoming clear that a big part of the problem is the long-term, cumulative, sub-lethal impacts upon the bees from the plethora of pesticides and fungicides that they are exposed to when foraging. I think we will find that somewhere in the synergistic relationships between these various pesticides, coupled with stress from transportation and varroa, lies the cause of CCD.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffnmo View Post
    it seems rather obvious to me that lab research (autopsy) should be done on all suspected CCD bees. At the same time testing of the hives themselves should take place. This would give us a true starting spot to start drawing conclusions. Also it appears to me that the greatest losses come with commercial beeks that transport bees long distances--- stress. Also these bees may be subject to a lack of natural forage thus not the mixture of nutrients non-migratories would have, Just the HO of a new beek.
    Last edited by BigDawg; 07-31-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, Calif. USA
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    it is becoming clear that a big part of the problem is the long-term, cumulative, sub-lethal impacts upon the bees from the plethora of pesticides and fungicides that they are exposed to when foraging. I think we will find that somewhere in the synergistic relationships between these various pesticides, coupled with stress from transportation and varroa, lies the cause of CCD.
    http://beeinformed.org/2012/03/natio...osses-profile/
    "There were few migratory beekeepers but they managed the vast majority of colonies represented in the respondent population (209,162 migratory colonies vs. 60,956 non-migratory colonies). Migratory beekeepers were beekeepers who moved a majority of their colonies, at least once, across state lines. There was no difference between average losses between migratory beekeepers (75 responses, average loss 30.3%) vs. non-migratory beekeepers (2,975 responses, average loss 34.2%)"

    Thus we see that researchers to date have not found keepers that reside in heavy neonic / pesticide usage areas or migratory keepers suffer more CCD or losses from other causes.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    Dawg; I agree and believe that while we strive for more info we all should put our energies into working to solve the problem. It's unfortunate that people want to hop on just one area of a mystery and not take the time to examine all aspects. So often chemicals have been approved for use and have turned out to have effects and reactions that didn't show up in testing because certain real life issues were not addressed. This often is not the result of neferious behavior but because consequences are not always thought all the way through.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,632

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    I understand that all CCD tested hives to date have tested positive for IAPV,
    ...is there a citation for that?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ...is there a citation for that?

    deknow
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0906140803.htm

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,632

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    Seriously? Thats from 2007 bro. And no, no one (except for beeologics) believes this to be the case.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    I'm not sure what your point is relative to the year the article was published--data is data. I do know that there were some follow up studies/testing that found that not ALL the CCD colonies tested positive for IAPV, but I still think 90%+ did...Just a quick internet search shows at least a dozen published articles talking about IAPV as related to CCD, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say Beeologics are the only ones saying this....

    These articles discuss it to some degree:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0006481

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...2B6B6A7.d01t01

    http://www.plospathogens.org/article...l.ppat.1001160

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Seriously? Thats from 2007 bro. And no, no one (except for beeologics) believes this to be the case.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,632

    Default Re: New Study Shows Bees Become Disoriented After Neonics Exposure

    The idea that IAPV is highly correlated with CCD is outdated...it's what was being published in 2007.

    The studies you point to don't support your claim that:
    I understand that all CCD tested hives to date have tested positive for IAPV,...
    The studies you point to say things like:
    " Data from an initial study in which investigators compared pathogens in honey bees affected by CCD suggested a putative role for Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus, IAPV. This is a single stranded RNA virus with no DNA stage placed taxonomically within the family Dicistroviridae. Although subsequent studies have failed to find IAPV in all CCD diagnosed colonies, IAPV has been shown to cause honey bee mortality."...in 2010.

    Beeologics is the only place you will still find any emphesis on IAPV and CCD...because Beeologics is trying to market a vaccine for IAPV.

    You can't discuss the current state of the science with old data...especially when that old data has been shown to be not true.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

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