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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Too late for a trap-out?

    I got a call from a guy that has bees in a wall and I want to do a trap out. My concern is, is it too late for them to try to get them strong enough for fall and winter? This will be my first TO so it is all new.

    Also they look like a different bee than what I have and would really like to get the queen to keep the genetics. How long does it take for the queen to come out and go in my hive?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    to quickly try to answer your questions. . . It's not too late for a trapout IMO. However I'd lean on local people to help you. Do you have any idea when your fall flow is there in Michigan? In Pa we have 2-3 months which is plenty of time. To do a trapout properly now may be the best time because you can allow them to rob out the cavity which is what you want to do at the end of the trapout. Getting the queen? Well that may work depending upon how you try to do it in as little as a few days to a week or so, or you may never get her. I'd do a search for Cleo Hogan's posts on the subject. I'd PM him and ask for his trapout instructions. They're great and VERY VERY helpful. He's also a great guy (I have never met him, but have talked via beesource) and very free to give info. He has some steps to seek to get the queen, but you really need to follow a few pointers that he mentions. One big point is don't start trapping them out until you get the queen and the thing that is necessicary is that the brood nest is close to the entrance. Let me know if you have a hard time tracking Cleo down. I do have his info and may be able to get it to you also, but I'd go to the horse's mouth and not a neighbor.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Thank you. I know here in MI we still have Goldenrod coming so I was hoping their was more time. I have found Cleo Hogans info and will read it thoroughly. Thanks for the pointers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,072

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    I started a trap out in late August last year. I made to 5 frame nucs from the bees that both wintered over just fine and both produced honey this year. The trap out did not get completed before winter set in and was completed as a cut out early this year.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Do I have this right that you add a frame of eggs and brood to the box to attract the bees.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,114

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    If the wall hive has a lot of honey stores - which they may this time of year, then they might be able to outlast you. If they just moved in and are light then it's probably a great time to trap them out for the purpose of removing them from the wall. If what you are after is "free" bees, then it's pretty late for that. A swarm in July....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    The guy told me that they just moved in about a week ago. The guy is gonna exterminate them if I don't want them and I figured if I could at least get them to draw out some foundation since I am new that's worth something. They are a darker bee which interests me but I am seeing there is no guarantee I will get the queen anyway but still don't want to just exterminate them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    David's +1 for a trap out.


    Cutout may be a better option for your circumstances.

    Don

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbyers View Post
    The guy told me that they just moved in about a week ago. The guy is gonna exterminate them if I don't want them and I figured if I could at least get them to draw out some foundation since I am new that's worth something. They are a darker bee which interests me but I am seeing there is no guarantee I will get the queen anyway but still don't want to just exterminate them.
    If he's going to exterminate them first off exterminators may not do it. I've found out in this area exterminators seek out beekeepers to help / handle honeybees. I've gotten several calls from people that called one and they said they don't deal with honeybees.

    On a second note. . . If they just moved in then I think now is a great time to try Cleo's method. Put a box over the entrance so that they have full access to their "location" in the house and into the box. Add a frame of open brood. Eggs / larva etc. to the box and in 24 hrs. come back and see if the queen is in the box. If she is then put a cone in the box to stop them from gong back into the cavity and you've got them. The remaining bees will come out once they realize that their queen isn't there. They also most likely won't have resources nor a desire to start a new queen because they're a new swarm. Be prepared to have a good ammt. of bees in your box when you put the open brood in there. If the queen comes out you may just bring the rest of them also.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Clover, WV
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Is there any way to do a normal cutout? The trap out method can take several weeks, and the sooner you get them in a hive, the better. And, even in two weeks, they will have some comb built and can lay some eggs sooner if you can get to it and band it into frames.

    Note-This is my first year, and all 13 of my hives are from cutouts. The 2 trap outs I tried were not nearly as successful as the worst of the cutouts.
    John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
    14 hives - All cutouts and swarms

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    I have never done a cutout and to be honest I am nervous about cutting into someone's wall. I thought a trap out might be easier but wish I knew someone I could work with to help so I could get my hands wet before trying it alone.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    I just did a cut-out about a month ago with a swarm that was there for about 2 weeks. I filled about 4 or 5 frames with the comb, but it's very difficult to get the soft white comb to stay put. A cut-out w/o a vac in this situation may not be preferable. However I've done it and it's not all that difficult as long as you do your homework. A cut-out is definitely faster and could be better, but it could be more of a pain. What's the wall like that you'd be cutting into? I thought I remember brick or block or something. If that is the case then a cut-out isn't an option IMHO. I'd trap them out also. I just got a bee call today for a hive that may be in the block wall. I may be doing a trapout soon also?!? jsbyers is it possible for you to post some pictures? Inside and out would be helpful. Perhaps we could give you some pointers and more thoughts as to what may be best. A trap-out isn't a "slam dunk" if you know what I mean. It can go very well, but it can go poorly also. But honestly a cut-out can be the same. I did a cut-out (pre beevac) last year and the queen and the rest of the bees ran up under the roof that I wasn't able to get to them and I didn't have any beequick or anything like that. They swarmed 2-3 days later and I never got them. I did get an established hive from the brood that I cut out, but didn't have the "booming hive" that I was hoping for.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    It is up about 15 feet on the corner of the chimney and siding. There is a crack. It looks like they are possible going up into the attic which is a plaster ceiling on the inside. Not fun. Like I said I have never done a cut out but it doesn't seem feasible to do a cut out. He does want them dead or gone so he can seal it up so if it doesn't work I may just have to let him. I thought if I could trap them or some of them enough to build a new hive. Sounds like the queen coming out is hit or miss. Wouldn't she notice all the bees aren't coming back and come to investigate or are there enough nurse bees that she wouldn't notice?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    How about posting up a few photos, so we could help you better?

    Don

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,903

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbyers View Post
    I have never done a cutout and to be honest I am nervous about cutting into someone's wall. I thought a trap out might be easier but wish I knew someone I could work with to help so I could get my hands wet before trying it alone.
    jsbyers...send me an e-mail.....cchoganjr@scrtc.com and i will send you a 12 page document on fundamentals of the trapout with photos of trapouts in progress.

    cchoganjr

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    Thanks Cleo I will do that. I couldn't find the info online.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    jsbyers this may not be something you'd want to try to tackle as a first time. Pictures would be helpful, but from the brief description getting a box close enough to where the hive is may be very difficult. If you don't get the box close enough to the main hive then you won't be able to get the queen out with a frame of open brood. This will hopefully at least be a learning experience for you and something you can research up more on and perhaps get the next one?!?

    Cleo this is what I was talking about earlier. I am greatful for your help for others!!! You and others on this site make this site what it is and I for one appreciate it very much!!!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    The pdf Cleo sent was very helpful. I will definitely work on buying or making a box. I think if I can rig something up to get the box up there I can do it.

    I too love beesource. I have learned a lot. Thanks to the experienced ones for sharing their knowledge and experience.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,903

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    jsbyers. Make your own. There is nothing magic about the trap. Just need some way to attach the trap to the tree, and get the connection as close as possible. You can use two pieces of pipe, two pieces of hose, build it from wood,...... For the funnel you can make one from screen wire, attach it over the end of the tunnel, pipe, hose, whatever. You can buy a funnel at Walmart, Dollar Stores, Hardware stores, cut it down to size, as a last resort you can order the funnel from Dadant, Better Bee, Kelly's. It is called a conical bee escape, costs about $1.25 each. I would make my own, but, then I am cheap.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Too late for a trap-out?

    I am gonna make my own. Kelley's is about $100 after shipping. Never thought about that with just using a funnel from Walmart. Another bee project. I love it.

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