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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Flora,IL
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    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    interesting point, but if the queens never use that space its wasted woodenware. So far I have not seen a queen that actually uses that much and lays well. I treied 4 hives this year with unlimited brood nest, and none of them (all feral stock) did anything to talk about..... so, there is a trait in those queens that is different. hence my question. just wondering out loud...

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    interesting point, but if the queens never use that space its wasted woodenware. So far I have not seen a queen that actually uses that much and lays well. I treied 4 hives this year with unlimited brood nest, and none of them (all feral stock) did anything to talk about..... so, there is a trait in those queens that is different. hence my question. just wondering out loud...
    What resources did they have to start off with in springtime?

  3. #43
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    May 2009
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    Flora,IL
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    2,644

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Most of those were in double deeps with a super. Decent food supplies. can't really tell you haw much as i didn't record it last fall.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
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    649

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Numbers game. 30 doubles or 20 triple. 60 hive bodies either way. If you lose 30% of your doubles and put resources on other 20. You still end up with 20 triples.
    Tim, every place is different, not sure what works for you will work for me here. I run all 8 frame mediums so to try you're method on 20 hives cost me about 1200 lbs. of honey this year at an average price of $4 / Lbs. = $4,800.

    Double those cost if my wife if reads this thread . That's enough of an experiment for one year.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Your next problem will be, enough supers to contain everything from swarming.

    My area pollen starts coming in 3/11 on average.

    If hives are not supered early enough. My triples start swarming 4/27-5/9. Doubles 5/26-6/11

    Unless your in a constant state of growth how is it I'd run short of supers every year?

    Thanks for your help.

    ...Don

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by D Semple View Post
    Tim, every place is different, not sure what works for you will work for me here. I run all 8 frame mediums so to try you're method on 20 hives cost me about 1200 lbs. of honey this year at an average price of $4 / Lbs. = $4,800.

    Double those cost if my wife if reads this thread . That's enough of an experiment for one year.

    It's not about how much honey you leave on them. Hive dynamics thru out the season. If you secluded the queen to certain brood area, that's the area they'll equalize too.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by D Semple View Post
    Unless your in a constant state of growth how is it I'd run short of supers every year?

    Thanks for your help.

    ...Don
    Constant state of growth. The number of supers dictates how many hives I can super next year. The balance of the hives get split into 3 full hive body splits, with 2 new hive bodies added to them.

    Supering 50% splitting 50%. With 8% average losses since 07, I've increased each year. Even if I was to occur a national average 30% loss I would still increase 10%.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by D Semple View Post
    Unless your in a constant state of growth how is it I'd run short of supers every year?

    Thanks for your help.

    ...Don
    I would have to occur 30% losses 3 years in a row to catch up on having enough supers to contain. Putting less supers on the hives increases probabilities of hives swarming= less honey.....

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    It's not about how much honey you leave on them. Hive dynamics thru out the season. If you secluded the queen to certain brood area, that's the area they'll equalize too.


    So, I should leave empty drawn comb in the overwintering hives?

    Maybe below the active brood nest?

    I don't feed, so I have been restricting super space some on our fall flow to push the queen down into the bottom boxes going into winter.

    Don

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by D Semple View Post


    So, I should leave empty drawn comb in the overwintering hives?

    Maybe below the active brood nest?

    I don't feed, so I have been restricting super space some on our fall flow to push the queen down into the bottom boxes going into winter.

    Don

    Whatever your original plan was, stick to it. To late in the year to change hive dynamics now. Which goes back to the original point of the 30(2)vs 20(3). If you lose 30% of the doubles, no big deal putting resources on in late winter on live hives gives the hive resources/ room to increase early. The hive isn't going to be equal as a overwintered triple which had the whole previous season. The biggest difference is the number of winter bees in the 2 systems.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    My original thougt behind using the 3 deep system was for eliminating using sugar, hive replacement and just dealing with the 30% losses locally and nationally.
    Since keeping track on 06' michiana beekeepers association has occurred 30% +/- 4% losses.

    I figured on pulling a split, dropping the 3rd deep down adding 3-4 supers. Get honey from them, the split would be the replacement hive for the following year and the supered hive would end up not making it. All the older beekeepers in area said our honey flow didn't start till June. My original yard has 3 acres of black locust which starts around 5/20, so I was supering 2 weeks prior to that date. Problem triples started swarming 4/27. So this got me to rethink timing of supering. Takes 16 days to make a queen, so I needed to be supering before 4/11. Which I started doing in 2010 still using 4 supers. They would have them filled after the Black Locust/ tulip popular flow and still go into swarm mode. So I started increasing the number of supers and got the timing of the flows down. Extract supers after the flows and get back on ASAP before letting them get honeybound.
    Double left unsupered didn't start swarming till 5/25.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Tim, I've been meaning to ask you if you think your system might work horizontally. I've built several long hives this year. They each hold 32 deep frames, so the frame area is about the same as 3 deeps. They can be supered-- you could stack 3 rows of three 8 frame mediums on each hive, so 9 supers without needing a stepladder.

    What do you think?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Tim, I've been meaning to ask you if you think your system might work horizontally. I've built several long hives this year. They each hold 32 deep frames, so the frame area is about the same as 3 deeps. They can be supered-- you could stack 3 rows of three 8 frame mediums on each hive, so 9 supers without needing a stepladder.

    What do you think?
    That's a great question.. I built some linear boxes back few years ago, which I was going to try. 48 3/4"* 19 7/8" which you could place 3 supers on. Well never got around to using them. One thing that detered me from using was what the bees was doing mid Feb when dropping down to bottom deep then brooding up from there. Once the brood is capped, very little of the cluster stays on the capped. They'll cluster on the open brood. So after seeing this I aborted the linear hive idea.
    But without trying, I can't say 100%. Just going by the dynamics.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wellsville, PA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Tim, when you say "using 4 supers" do you mean you put 4 honey supers (deeps?) on a three deep hive all at once in April?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdeaner View Post
    Tim, when you say "using 4 supers" do you mean you put 4 honey supers (deeps?) on a three deep hive all at once in April?
    6 5/8" medium supers. Pulling 9 1/2" deeps of honey...ughhh..lol

  16. #56
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wellsville, PA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Ok thanks. But you still put the 4 mediums on at once, instead of one at a time, waiting until the super is 70-80 percent full as I have often heard recommended.
    Last edited by Bdeaner; 09-12-2013 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Typo

  17. #57
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdeaner View Post
    Ok thanks. But you still put the 4 mediums on at once, instead of one at a time, waiting until the super is 70-80 percent full as I have often heard recommended.
    I increased to 6-7. Checker boarding the supers,New,drawn,New drawn,New,drawn. New supers 10 frame , drawn supers 9 frame. 8 frame end up being to fat to run thru the decapper.

    The new supers keeps the wax builders depleted, which is a major need to cast a swarm. The drawn entices the hoarding behaviors

  18. #58
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    The hives don't know your going to add more room for them. Once they get to a certain point of being crowded they'll find room else where. Once they're set in swarm mode, the added room is to late.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Triple Deeps, Benefits of Larger Hives

    Also by not getting supers on early enough they'll start backfilling the 3 rd deep, which will also set them to swarm mode.

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