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Thread: Honey House

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Here is what I got, for anyone interested

    http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/Ia...tml?sort=3&o=0

    The cement is going to be poured on Monday, so you can see the unit clearly as it would sit under the floor.
    It is hitched up to a water system so that I can flush the gutter out at anytime by turning on the water valve. The gutter drains into a sump which has a wax screen to catch all the wax before it enters the septic system which is plumbed in with the appropriate check valves. Its a SS unit so corrosion is not an issue. The price of this system is basically no more than if I had priced the guys to form in a cement gutter system
    Last edited by Ian; 08-11-2013 at 07:56 AM.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #102
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Ian, I'm sure you're excited about the new facility, would be nice to see some pics when its done, always enjoy looking at other honey house setups. If you don't mind telling, how many hives do you run up there?

  3. #103
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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Ian: Nice! Some questions. Did you put in multiple zones? Where did you come up with the SS gutter? Are you going with a 1/4" to the foot slope?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Sorry Ian I didn't look at your website till just now, I see you have 900 colonies.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    Sorry Ian I didn't look at your website till just now, I see you have 900 colonies.
    ya I love looking at other beekeeper set ups, that is why I post all this stuff, youd be surprised how many people are interested! Wish more would do the same!
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Ian: Nice! Some questions. Did you put in multiple zones? Where did you come up with the SS gutter? Are you going with a 1/4" to the foot slope?
    I dont understand what you mean by multiple zones, ? can you elaborate?
    They are pouring the floor in one pour,
    There is a hutterite colony around here that make them, and supplies them to the guys that I have hired to install my floor. If you google U-Drain I think you might find their website.
    To be honest I dont know if it is a 1/4" slope towards the gutter system, but yes everything is sloped. It is going to be so nice to have proper floor drainage!

    ha ha ha,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Honey House

    The plumber that did mine, set up a manifold with 3 separate manually controlled zones in a 25'x40 foot room. He said its easy to do and good insurance in case of a leak. We often just put honey on one side and use a single zone when the weather is just a bit cool. I'm not sure if it saves much energy but it seems to be all that's needed to take the chill off the honey. I think 1/4" to the foot is pretty standard slope to drains, and it's what I did but there are still some pockets of water that sit in some spots. I have wondered if I would have been happy going a bit more though it you are stacking high leaning becomes a problem at some point.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Hopefully the outfit doing the pour takes the time to pitch the floor correctly towards the drain. I spent my life in the construction industry, and you would be surprised how in many cases the floor drain turned out to be the highest point in the room!

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Few things in life are as irreversible as a concrete pour. Get the slope right and get the finish you desire right, and guard it with your life from kids, pets and some adults for at least 24 hours.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The plumber that did mine, set up a manifold with 3 separate manually controlled zones in a 25'x40 foot room. He said its easy to do and good insurance in case of a leak. We often just put honey on one side and use a single zone when the weather is just a bit cool. I'm not sure if it saves much energy but it seems to be all that's needed to take the chill off the honey. I think 1/4" to the foot is pretty standard slope to drains, and it's what I did but there are still some pockets of water that sit in some spots. I have wondered if I would have been happy going a bit more though it you are stacking high leaning becomes a problem at some point.
    oh, your talking about my floor heat. Ya, I have three heat zones, but I did not isolate zones wthin my rooms as the objective of my contractor was to lay the pipe so that my floor would be evenly heated, Think there is 250' in a loop. It did cross my mind to seperate my heat coils in the hot room so that I dont have to heat the entire floor, but in my mind simplicity is best when laying pipe, especially when its covered with cement! lol
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    Hopefully the outfit doing the pour takes the time to pitch the floor correctly towards the drain. I spent my life in the construction industry, and you would be surprised how in many cases the floor drain turned out to be the highest point in the room!
    these guys have set up reference points using a laser level, I assume they will be close
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    Hopefully the outfit doing the pour takes the time to pitch the floor correctly towards the drain. I spent my life in the construction industry, and you would be surprised how in many cases the floor drain turned out to be the highest point in the room!
    I'm afraid that two out of three bays in my building have drains like that.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  13. #113
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    Apr 2013
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    Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada
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    Default Re: Honey House

    If your just expanding your operation don't rush into building a giant building with all the bells and whistles. Start small and simple and leave yourself room to expand as your operation does. I'll give my two cents and you can go from there. Commence massive text wall:

    I might get some flak on this but personally i would recommend you start small with a 40x40 pole barn structure with a concrete floor and the two end walls framed walls. 12ft ceilings, 12x12 garage door and a man door. Place this building so that you can later add on to the rear and the front of the building (hence the framed end walls).
    Take your 40x40 building and divide it in half with a framed up wall. The first 40x20 section will not be insulated and will be for storage of all your equipment.
    Now take the 2nd 40x20 section and divide that further into a 15x20 and a 25x20 room. This will be your extracting and heating room. These two sections will be insulated walls and ceiling. Put in two double doors at least 6ft wide and 7-8ft tall joining each of your three sections. This will allow you to move pallets of supers from storage to extracting room to heating room or however you like. Make sure you put a trench/U-drain in each of these sections and who ever pours your concrete will likely do this for you and put in a proper slope to the floor. You can throw a window in the side walls if you like in each of the heating and extracting rooms if you like.
    From here as your operation expands you can simply pour a concrete pad in from or behind your building to expand whichever section needs the added room. This size extracting and heating room will do fine with your radial extractor setup. Down the road add another 10-15ft on to this section and you can fit an extracting line. This drastically cuts back on initial capital cost of your expanding hives numbers. Its important to remember that the bigger you get the more you have to wholesale your honey and in this province don't count on anything over $1.80-$2.00/lbs bulk/wholesale. Don't forget that if your wanting to go commercial sized you will most likely need to buy a flat deck truck and a loader for pollination season as well as the pallets for the bees to go on. The costs seem endless at times.

    Just a little on building materials. If your end goal is to go commercial then building everything to CFIA standards. Being able to hold a federal CFIA inspection allows you to ship your bulk honey out of province and get a better dollar per pound then selling it within the province. CFIA is a pain to work with but it pays off in the end to go this route.
    Despite what people might suggest DO NOT use wood or tin or steel on your interior walls or floor. This is a poor idea in my mind and i have been quite shocked when i walked in many extracting rooms to see plywood or pressure treated lumber being used in a food preparation area. Concrete floors are a must, they are easy to clean and hold up far better then anything else. For walls and ceilings use Galvalum its CFIA approved and is a breeze to clean. Galvalume looks like steel sheeting and goes up the same and it is rugged stuff (white is required for CFIA wall.ceiling colours). A pressure washer is your new best friend making clean up a breeze. We used this in our extracting and heating room on its walls and ceilings (took us forever to find this approved CFIA material) and it looks great and is maintenance free.

    We built our facility so that if anything had to be replaced or moved it could be done without tearing into a wall. We ran all our electrical on the outside of the walls and ceilings through grey pvc tubing. Most of our plugs are ceiling plugs so that they drop down to our extracting line and you have no cords on the floor to get tangled. All our plugs and lights are waterproof as well as shatter proof guards on the lighting (CFIA req). CFIA will also tell you the amount of lighting needed in a given area to pass inspection. Lastly, make sure when you run the power to your building you keep in mind the power draw from an extracting line, heating/settling tanks, heater for your heating room and all the lights.

    Last part of rant. Equipment wise, work with what you have then add pieces as you can afford. If your thinking about an extracting line then i would suggest looking at Cowen's 28-frame extracting line, its compact and not a killer on the pocket book. Many folks will say go for the 60-framer but most commercial guys i talk to with them say its a two man machine. With a 28-framer i easily do 5-6,000 lbs in a short work day by myself and don't feel rushed.

    We use to extract 21,000-25,000 lbs of honey with a single wax picker and a 10 frame maxant radial for several years out of a building with a 10x10 room that served as a heating and extracting room. Extractor still works too! Our wax cappings were cleaned by the bees and 30lbs buckets were the decorations of every square inch of our honey house floor it seemed. We started small and grew our infrastructure as the hive numbers/business grew.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by CBC View Post
    I
    I might get some flak on this but personally i would recommend you start small with a 40x40 pole barn structure with a concrete floor and the two end walls framed walls. 12ft ceilings, 12x12 garage door and a man door. Place this building so that you can later add on to the rear and the front of the building (hence the framed end walls).
    T
    Why would you get flak for that, its exactly what I did. Pole sheds are a good economical way to go
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Honey House

    I just put that in there since too many folks seem to have the "go big or go home" attitude and seem to forget that capital costs are very high starting off in this industry compared to initial profit margins.

  16. #116
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    bridgewater , nova scotia
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Thanks , I have to get the permits for the building and need to know all of the costs to get it , I haven't yet found anything out from CFIA , I went to the local FIA and they say they only do Fish , I have the name and number for the guy who does the Honey inspections for NS, I haven't yet done anything with that.
    I was planning on coming up on the farm day that is coming up, to see your family farm and meet everyone , hoping to get a look at your setup too.

    The building inspector said a pole barn construction was ODD because we don't have a lot of poles around ???huh??? I wasn't in the shop when he dropped in , but all I could do when I heard that was laugh a lot !

    My father in-law has (I think) a 40X36 pole barn and it is as solid as can be , and he had engineered drawings for it, but can't find them. I know if it is over 800 Sft it has to be engineered concrete , but what about the building itself ?

    I planned on starting the construction this fall , but I didn't want to start until I saw a newer style honey house . It would help bring some things to perspective for me .

    40 X 40 sounds about the right size for quite a while for me and I will wait (like you mentioned) to do any expanding . I had a floor plan in mind , but I kept changing it LOL

    I am currently looking for a good loader , I found some , but for only doing one pollination , it is expensive . I have given thought to renting one , but I hate renting things.

    Have a good one and Thanks ( CBC )

    Ben L

    P.S. my main reason for building this is because I am currently "borrowing" space from a building that our shop uses for new parts storage , I cleaned a section of it out and have it insulated and plastic everywhere for now , but I don't have room to put many supers in and I have to lug them from my house 300 ft away through the woods , and bottle it back in my basement LOL My back and shoulders are killing me because of it. but it is all in good fun.
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Honey House

    I'll put together all my CFIA papers and you can look at my ledger for costs of our building expansion as well as where we got our materials. I would suggest registering as a business, getting your GST # before you think about doing anything so you get your taxes back and you can apply for funding for some materials through Dept Agriculture programs (if registered farmer) if you are going CFIA route which i would suggest you do.

    I am not sure on "engineered" concrete, we had an existing building and perp'd the inside for concrete, after it was poured it was cut into 4 blocks for our main 40x60 storage area. This prevents cracking. Anyone doing your pour will tell you type of concrete and thickness based on the weight you plan on putting on the floor.

    Kubota sometimes have used R310s or R320s come in but the things never seem to die so its rare they are traded in or are up for sale. I would stay away from skid steers, too jerky and bumpy for loading bees in my opinion.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post
    The building inspector said a pole barn construction was ODD because we don't have a lot of poles around ???huh??? I wasn't in the shop when he dropped in , but all I could do when I heard that was laugh a lot !
    our poles were made from 2 by 6 laminated, treated one end.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post

    The building inspector said a pole barn construction was ODD because we don't have a lot of poles around ???huh??? I wasn't in the shop when he dropped in , but all I could do when I heard that was laugh a lot !
    Are u going to have Amish build your Pole Barn, since you don't have very many Poles in your area?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #120
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    Athens, OH
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    Default Re: Honey House

    Am I going to have to call mine a hippy barn?
    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. -Frank Zappa

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