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Thread: Bee Shield

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I also have difficulties with suspicious behavior and find Oldtimers behavior suspicious.
    Yup you got me, looks like I'll have to fess up. I'm a Bayer spy.

    Seriously though Daniel, Beesheild and I do have one thing in common, we both sell a product. They sell a chemical, and what I sell is bees. The difference, is that anyone can ask me anything they like about my product, and I will answer to the best of my ability. That is how an honest business is run.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-02-2013 at 06:21 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Bee Shield



    .... after DY's astute analysis of Oldtimer's rousing endorsement of Beeshield, I am ready to place my order today ...



    ... next up - storm analysis ...
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Daniel. If you read a little farther back you will notice one of the reasons I am suspicious of this product. Even prior to their web roll out I detected a connection between their "location" and an outfit that I had dealt with previously. The results were poor at best and they have made no attempt to return or replace the equipment I loaned them to get them out of a jam they had gotten themselves in. Because of that and some of their currently advertised practices I had substantial reservations about associating with them ever again. Turned out with the connection being there as I had guessed. They may be on to something which they are welcome to prove. Is it a crime to warn people about something with what I would regard as snake oil history? If not then sit down and wait to see what comes of their tests?????

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    I understand Phil....really I do. Let's take this beyond the personal though. The web site claims virus resistance by:
    "not allowing the protein Capsule of a virus To be able to communicate with the Glycoproteins or carbohydrate antenna of the cellular membrane of an organism. This prevents cellular uptake of the virus In the form of endocyctosis a process which introduces single strand DNA and double stranded RNA into the cellular mechanism of the Cell. This does not allow for viral takeover of the organelles, in the cellular matrix, stopping viral reproduction"

    Or this description of how pesticides are disarmed.

    By....Electron Resonance Response. This is BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize when there is a highly reactive element that would be detrimental to the living organism. It will bind with it and make it non reactive and no longer harmful to what was introduced to it."

    Does this make any sense or sound plausible to any of the more scholarly folks on here?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    As for "Electron Resonance Response", the most knowledgable guy around (Google) doesn't know about it. What is being described is the action of anti-oxidants.

    For endocytosis to work in the way described, the chemical must either BE the protein the host cell needs, eliminating that receptor from being able to be used by the virus, or else mutate the host cell or the viral cell so that the protein receptor on the host cell no longer matches the virus. We call mutated host cells "cancer" usually. And mutating the host cell means that it would no longer pick up the proteins that it needs for survival, so the most benign result would be cell death.

    If the chemical mutates the virus, by all means alert scientists worldwide so they can become informed of how this works. I'm sure they'd love to mutate HIV or a whole host of other viruses out of existence.
    Last edited by rweaver7777; 12-02-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Yes, my confident claim that the product is a fraud and the vendor a liar, is based (among other things), on this pseudo scientific speak, that is not the reality. It is nothing more than an attempt to bamboozle, and to fool the gullible.

    If it was true, (which it isn't), the company would be bought for not millions, but billions of dollars by Bayer or some other large player, and we could then all forget ever having to worry about our bees being poisoned or getting a disease again, cos Beesheild would do it's magic and bees would be living in a safe, perfect world.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    >By....Electron Resonance Response. This is BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize when there is a highly reactive element that would be detrimental to the living organism. It will bind with it and make it non reactive and no longer harmful to what was introduced to it."

    "Electron Resonance Response" is not the normal terminology to describe how molecules bond to other molecules but it's not too far from describing it. The problem with the description is "BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize". When you have a "highly reactive element" I assume they mean it's "looking" for something that will fill its outer orbit of electrons. The substance or substances that will fill that depends on how many electrons it's short and the substance that will bond with it can't "recognize" anything, but it will be attracted to the appropriate electron gap and will bond with that. That is assuming we are talking about the pesticide as a chemical that is going to bond on a molecular level with whatever is in "BEE SHIELDS". But many different pesticides work by many different methods. Usually they interfere with some biological system in the insect such as the nervous system. In this case they are often not reacting on some molecular level, but rather reacting to chemical receptors such as the acetylcholine receptors in the nervous system (the method by which neonicotinoids works). Is it possible to make something that would bind with the neonicotinoids to keep them from binding with the acetylcholine receptors? Probably, but the neonicotinoids are simulating acetylcholine in this regard. In the case of acetylcholine, it is only loosely attracted to the receptor which is why the nerve eventually resets when the acetylcholine lets go and is eventually removed by acetylcholinesterase. Now would acetylcholinesterase work to block neonicotinoids? I think it would, but it would also interfere with the normal function of the acetylcholine by breaking it down as well at a rate higher than the organism requires. Other insecticides which are systemic in different ways, of course, would require entirely different chemicals to “neutralize” them, if it is even possible to neutralize them. How many different chemicals would it take to neutralize all the current pesticides? Quite a few. And how much would those chemicals interfere with the normal functioning of the insect? I don’t believe it’s possible to counter them without creating different problems. Trying to interfere (e.g. BEE SHIELDS) with a chemical (the pesticide) that is trying to interfere with a biological process (e.g. acetylcholine receptors) almost always imitates a natural “checks and balances” system (e.g. acetylcholinesterase ) in the biological process (e.g. the nervous system) which simply unbalances it in the opposite direction (e.g. destroys the acetylcholine that the insect needs to have a normal functioning nervous system).

    And of course, one substance cannot be “smart” and adjust itself to all of the possible pesticides and chemicals.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Maybe it contains nano sized activated carbon.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Set and wait, For what? The imagined conclusions of the massively clueless but otherwise highly qualified masses here. the very same people that are now saying they do not even understand it. do you really think this is the group of peers that will be offered the opportunity to evaluate this product? I think you have now created an atmosphere that guarantees it will not be. What makes you think that they or anyone else would return to mention anything about it after your warm reception? Brow beat someone and then set your expectations on them returning as some sign of success or failure. Is that how you do it?

    As far as I can tell they are attempting to disable viruses the very same way it is done naturally by the immune system. only they are attempting to manufacture a synthetic antibody.

    Is the technology real? Yes it actually is. I know of at least one medical research center that specializes in Molecular Medicine. One of it's most active as well as promising research programs is the development of an antibody for brain tumors. The general idea is that they take a portion of the brain tumor and from that they can manufacture a serum that can be administered intravenously. This serum is then capable of targeting just the cells of the brain tumor and harm no healthy cells around it. it woudl amount to tumor removal with molecular precision. Now you can decide that research findings over the next week or two are definitive as to this researches success or the potential success of the method. I choose to think that you grandchildrens grandchildren may benefit from it. So you may want to start by getting some sort of clue as to what research takes and when you can expect results. I suspect Beesheild is attempting to drum up support for further research.

    So is it potentially real? Very much so. Can it be applied to the Varros mite? possibly. will it work? Past experience has clearly shown that such developments are very slow and filled with pit falls along the way. Research more often than not creates more questions than answers. and as those endless questions get solved. somewhere in the background applicable products get produced. I know of one research project that has been in progress for nearly 20 years that was intended and in fact had a direct goal as to the development of a specific product. and it was successful in doing so.

    I understand you have a problem with how you where treated. I have a problem with how you treated Beesheild. and you did it on nothing but a suspicion of who they are. Sounds like your trying to justify yourself to me.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    One of it's most active as well as promising research programs is the development of an antibody for brain tumors. The general idea is that they take a portion of the brain tumor and from that they can manufacture a serum that can be administered intravenously.
    Brain tumors?? Administer a serum intravenously?? Are you really talking about bees? In the words of a prominent forum member:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    The best trolls have gotten good at maintaining a smattering of relevant and seemingly helpful posts. but if you really look they have little content or only reveal a shallow depth of involvement at best.



    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I suspect Beesheild is attempting to drum up support for further research.
    I suspect everyone would like to have a little green "reseach" flow into their pockets.



    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    No Graham, I am talking about the technology of being able to produce a synthetic antibody. So if you can manufacture something that will attack some specific part of a human. Could you manufacture something that will attack some part of a Varroa mite?

    I know for a fact they are developing the former.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I am talking about the technology of being able to produce a synthetic antibody.
    Somebody may indeed be working on that. Quite likely even!

    However, this is what Bee-Shield says about their product:
    What is in your product?

    BEE SHIELD’s formula is a proprietary formula of natural organic ingredients. This formulation of ingredients is a scientifically proven a-mixture process that is ours exclusively. We are sure you can appreciate that we need to protect our unique formula as we would not want our product to be compromised. Bees need to be more sustainable and with BEE SHIELD™ we offer the ability to accomplish that task.

    http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/bee-shield-faqs
    Somehow "natural organic ingredients" seems at odds with manufacturing the "synthetic antibody" that DY describes! I'm probably just a little slow though ...

    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    calling them Synthetic was my choice. There is nothing artificially about them. It is actually more of a manipulation and possible and interference and alteration of natural processes. so the entire thing could accurately be described as natural and pure etc.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    So, DY, have you sent your money to Bee-Shield for some of this "natural and pure" product yet?


    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

    I think thats my fav sig.


    Lot of pleasant people in here... It's why I dont show up here very often.. Good resource for reading, just dont post anything.
    www.outyard.weebly.com 8 yrs aiding 40+ hives 3 yrs personal. 40+ of my own now (T, TF Goal) Zone 5a

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    mlk;olpoui
    Quote Originally Posted by SS1 View Post
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.
    I think I'll take my stand at the bee bar and have another one. Give me a double shot of Bee Shield this time please.

    Anyone else remember when the nicotine based stuff was the new miracle cure and it wouldn't even work at 10 recommended dose?

    Call me a sceptic if you'd like. Seen this routine way to many times on my trips around sun. Don't always believe the label on the bottle.

    Seems to me if the stuff was so great they would be handing out free samples to some of those drug addicted beeks. If it works as touted the word would get around faster than ...........

    I'm all in for the new and improved.....just trying to stay away from being black, blue and well used.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    I think the vendor of Beesheild, (whoever he actually is), will be having a good chuckle reading this & seeing people attempt to explain his explanation how beesheild works. IE, actually bestow some seriousness to it.

    His explanation is gobbledegook. As a wiser head pointed out, many pesticides work in many different ways. The explanation given cannot possibly be a catch all for every pesticide, not to mention just happens to work on every virus, and hey, just for good measure, AFB bacteria as well.

    His explanation has served it's purpose though, it is just scientific sounding enough, yet vague and confusing enough, to have people actually try to make sense of it. A waste of time in my opinion.

    The public endorsements on the web site, to me, all look like they were written by the same person. They are also vague gobbledegook. This, for example:-

    Roger Hamilton - Hamilton Bee Farms, South Dakota
    "This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected. In four bee yards, I treated 32 hives with 4 treatments of BEE SHIELD. The bees appear to have more fecal matter by far than the 32 untreated hives and are starting to increase in bee population. I'm now feeding BEE SHIELD II and boxes are ready to go south for wintering. I plan on being a distributor come spring after all my field tests are complete."

    From it, "This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected" ?
    So, just exactly what is that supposed to mean? In fact, it means nothing. It is confusing enough that a small % of people will think it sounds scientific, so will buy the product.

    As the old saying goes, a new sucker is born every minute. Unfortunately, that is the market this web site is targeting.

    Here's a rule for life, and avoiding scams. If buying something on the net, check who it is that you are dealing with. Many honest companies market on the net. If their physical address is there and you know who they are, they can be contacted on the phone, and verify where their premises are and could actually go there, it's likely above board. If the web site is totally anonymous, ie, you are dealing with nothing more than a page on your computer screen and (maybe) a phone number, be on guard, don't give them your money.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-03-2013 at 02:23 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Well, just had another look at their web site, and see they have now backed away from their original claim that Beeshield prevents AFB. So, 10 points to them for honesty.

    Having said that, I think this thread could have been a factor. They realised it will be very obvious to beekeepers with AFB who try Beeshield to cure AFB, that it doesn't work, and this would be easily documented and exposed on threads such as this, so their hand has been forced.

    Hence the value of an open forum like Beesource.

    Viruses, and poisonings, well that's a lot harder for the average beekeeper to say with certainty whether something worked or not, so they are leaving that claim in place. (For now). They say tests are "ongoing", and hint at tests, but still stubbornly refuse to release any test results whatsoever.

    Translation - there are no tests.

    And this from their site "We have been compared to other products and we are found to be superior by beekeepers that have used other products in the past and are now using BEE SHIELD™. We have some of the most prominent beekeepers in this country, and possibly the world, using our product. They are reporting that our product stands a foot above the rest and that nothing compares to our product on the market".

    Surely they joke.

    Who compared them and how were these comparisons done?
    What other products have they been compared to and found to be superior?
    Who are these most prominent beekeepers in the country and possibly the world, who are using the product?
    In what way is the product a foot above the rest and nothing compares?
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-03-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Bee Shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    So, DY, have you sent your money to Bee-Shield for some of this "natural and pure" product yet?


    Nope, not going to. I'm not the one that worried about snake oil. Like I said I don't disagree that the whole thing is most likely bogus. I simply see the reaction to it as way overboard and wondering why. no question it is over the tip. the only question I still have is the why. I'll probably never know. Oh well. I have a new arrangement of Silent Night to work on. I am doing a duet next week for cancer victims. A guitar and harmonica.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

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