"The treatment was very successful "
Why am I not surprised..
"The treatment was very successful "
Why am I not surprised..
Could it be two little things? A "history" as well as some other business practices that just don't add up. If these two are tied together as I have previously asked to no avail then one simple thing like selling "virgins" in February in central California which is about as unwise an investment as purchasing a car with no motor would be just one if many reasons IMO.
If anyone here can give me the name and number of anyone producing queens on a successful basis commercially in Central California in February I would sure appreciate the referral so I might chat with them.......... and test their sperm count.
Last edited by Honey-4-All; 10-31-2013 at 09:17 AM.
Doesn't this sound like Caspian solution a bit?
Since the initial suspicions at the beginning of this thread, even more reasons for doubt are becoming apparent. For one, the time line is wrong. For Beesheild, the product is first put on the market and sold as a cure all for AFB and pesticide (99%). AFTER the product is being sold on this basis, a trial is done to see if it works. Trial should have been done FIRST. The once available ingredient list showed nothing that would cure AFB or poison.
Another thing that has SCAM written all over it is the behaviour of the promoter/s. They use similar techniques on the forum to certain types of trolls, ie, not answering awkward questions just ignore them & hope they will go away. Just show up occasionally and make a comment to keep things going. The reason for avoiding proper debate in this way is because with a large readership like Beesource, there will always be that gullible few who will buy the product, those are the ones a thread like this is designed to reach, even despite the obvious flaws.
SECRECY. The "trial", which naturally was a success (we are told) will not be discussed publicly on the forum where it would be subject to scrutiny. That would be too damaging if the trial was not a useful trial, or didn't even take place. Rather, offer to enter into private email discussions with people it is hoped might privately be duped into buying it. The hope is that some people will buy it, and for some of them just by statistical chances their bees will do well, and then glowing reviews can be published.
Quotes from a MARKETING GURU. A marketing guru is often quoted like a mantra. The formula is invent some product - anything. If it has enough buzzwords it will sell if promoted enough. Buzzwords like organic, our common interest, the livelihood of bees, our food supply, etc. Then MARKET it. Even if 1% of the population are duped there is money to be made.
If solid data showing the product claims are true existed, it would surely have been presented by now. The lack of any proper information would make me avoid this product like the plague, it's a scam. A great shame it is even legal.
Well spoken, oldtimer!
Does this need a bump or do the people at Shame-rock need one. Not seeing much info on the miraculous tests results posted here. Looks like the marketing came first and the product development is still in process. Little bass ackwards unless the stuff never did work as they have "hinted." As the drunk guy in the old beer jingle used to say "What's up?"
Their web site is up, running, looks good and no doubt selling product to the gullible and uneducated, and bringing in the $$'s for them.
Why would they mess all that up by talking here, where the product might be held up to normal standards of disclosure and sensible scrutiny.
They have lied here, saying "tests" are about to be done / published / whatever, but they never are. Any money they take is by deception, and is theft. They should really be prosecuted, punished, and shut down.
BTW I don't think it is Caspian solution, because that was not organic. BeeSheild is just a mishmash of organic herbs and spices or whatever, that may or may not be helpful to the bees, but will definitely not protect from disease and pesticide (99%). The 99%, is a nice out by the way, if they ever do have a customer complain. "Oh, your bees must be the 1%".
Someone at beeSheild either has a marketing degree or is just excellent at product marketing activities.
They have someone on forums spreading the word and a write up in this months Bee Culture Page 15. The mag printed their claims as facts which is sure to drive in sales.
I'd give their product rollout at least a 8 out of 10.
The video on their main page is great, rock music, sky high claims, no quoted studies or research...but dang the music is catchy and it makes you want the product.
Whether the product works or not is a completely different story. I'd love to hear what legit bee scientists have to say.
There are great lessons to be learned on rolling a product out here, especially for folks with solid endeavors who aren't good at marketing.
Which of course is another red flag. Lot's of powerful marketing, no research or anything of substance.
I think you have made your point Oldtimer. you think it is snake oil. odds are you are correct. But they way you are like a dog on a bone makes me wonder what you are not saying. what interest do you have in this product? I don't buy the idea that you are just trying to warn people of a scam. you went far beyond that long ago. It now seems to me you have some sort of vendetta or personal bone to pick. I don't think we are getting the full story. and the lies and deception are not just on the part of Bee Shield.
Since when is it some sign of wrong doing to advertise and do it well? You have a point but you are scraping for scraps to make it. that concerns me. Why would you need to take advantage of every tiny contrived or blown out of proportion opportunity to bad mouth this product? And that you have so much good will toward your fellow man I do not buy. This is more of a hatred and that is nto consistent with good will for anyone.
Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.
Y- Maybe Oldtimer is just an old Boy Scout, trying to keep every one honest. Some people just have difficulties dealing with suspicious behavior, my self included.
Crazy Roland, Eagle Scout
After reading through this thread, hive me a hit of that snake oil!...
I considered telling you I work for the iluminati and we are secretly developing an alternative product, just to humor you conspiracy theory.
But - no, it's really more something like Roland said that's all.
And, that I have asked a number of questions, plain, straight forward type questions you could normally ask of any product vendor, mainly simply that he will show the research that he said he was going to show. But he stubbornly refuses to answer, pretty obvious why. Heck who would, if they were telling a pack of lies.
Something that really annoys me is when people lie to defraud money from the innocent, then trying to cover their deception by hinting that there are some studies, or whatever, that they will release later. But, they never do cos it doesn't exist, or, if it does, it does not back their claims. But they try to continue the deception anyway and milk that money cow. I cannot do anything about their web site. But I can draw attention to this scam, on Beesource.
My motives are that simple.
Also, Beesheild could shoot me down in flames any time they like, simply by supplying the study data that they say they have. If it's all true I would have to eat some serious crow and I'm sure they would love that.
But do I think there is much risk of that? No. The crow is quite safe. For this product, I have chosen to be a scambuster, along with some others who are annoyed by this fraud. Don't really know why, just caught my interest, and I don't like scams.
There it is Daniel.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-01-2013 at 01:27 PM.
Without this kind of forum, it is very easy for eager (maybe especially new) beekeepers to make serious mistakes. So I encourage the repeated asking of the right questions.
They seem to have been working hard on the BeeShield website, even if they haven't posted those alleged test results. See this page for customer testimonials, including this one:
Anyone, perhaps from South Dakota, actually know Roger?Roger Hamilton - Hamilton Bee Farms, South Dakota
"This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected. In four bee yards, I treated 32 hives with 4 treatments of BEE SHIELD. The bees appear to have more fecal matter by far than the 32 untreated hives and are starting to increase in bee population. I'm now feeding BEE SHIELD II and boxes are ready to go south for wintering. I plan on being a distributor come spring after all my field tests are complete. "
USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft
Thank you Rudy. If I can save someone like yourself from spending your bee money on a scam, and know instead you can buy something useful for your bees, like some more boxes, or a honey extractor, I'm happy.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-01-2013 at 01:56 PM.
So which is the real deception? Beesheilds presentation of their product, or your attempts to insult and antagonize them into not posting anything. Now the very people you claim to be protecting are going out of there way to remain informed about this product. and then dragging that information back here to post links to it. A little like telling folks to stay out of the dark alley so they go down the alley to see what it is to be afraid of. Not exactly working there champ. I don't think that is what you intended and so that is not what happened. In actuality this thread woudl most likely have died off long ago. but now has become a better promotion tool than it woudl have been.
I think you went from asking questions to insulting. and when you did you generated interest in this thread and curiosity on the part of many. You may well have created sympathy for beeshield in the process.
You did get one thing right though. and that is you where trying. you where trying enough to get on my nerves with it. I still think there is more to this than is being seen. I see the evidence I just don't see the full picture. People do things for a reason. and when they start doing things that do not make since. there are reasons we do not know about. And you have been full of not nonsensical behavior. Seems to me there is a lot we do not know. This your brother in law or something? Do you think you have some corner on the treatment market or something. you have some interest in treatments not being found and promoted?
Again where is this reliable evaluation that you offered? Making claims based upon you assumptions? is that what you consider fair impartial and qualified evaluation? Doing just what you offered may require you buy some of this stuff use it and then report on the rustles. nobody says he has to accommodate your offer to evaluate the product. that was your idea. so you carry it out. Nobody asked you to mention a fair evaluation of it. you chose to make that claim all on your own. so deliver it. words are cheap. Can your feet walk the same path you mouth describes? So just who is the shyster full of hot air in this conversation? Just rambling on with empty words and claims? I thought you had a problem with that sort of behavior. Or is that just when you choose to see it in others?
So I will hold you to the exact same thing you get so irritated with Beesheild over. lets so your evaluation of this product. you are the one that said you wanted it or that it is needed. so lets see if it is important enough for you to provide. You are the one that claims it can be provided here. so lets see it. I have yet to see anything yet that resembles it.
Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.