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  1. #1
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    Default Veils / Black Mesh

    Figured I'd ask around about the thoughts and opinions on veils that people own.

    I just started keeping two hives this year with my dad. He went out a purchased a veil.

    When I used it the first time, I found it to be rather limiting in terms of my vision (my eyes are 20/20) but the mesh only a few inches from my eyes really throws everything off for me.

    Does any one else have problems with vision with their veils? Please post all complaints as I'd love to work on a solution for better vision / ventilation.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Of course the mesh impairs vision. But the choices don't go much beyond mesh or some form of clear plastic/glass. And condensation/fogging is a problem with plastic/glass.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Don't worry, you will get used to having the veil over your head. Eventually, it will be the least of your concerns as the weather gets warm and your start having to lift full supers of honey with sweat running into your eyes and your glasses sliding down your nose and you inadvertently trap a bee between your finger and the handle of the box (ouch!). Then you will smile and say "I love beekeeping!"
    life is finite while knowledge is infinite. - Zhuang Zi

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    When my father-in-law went out and "purchased a veil" he got me one too, and I experienced the same thing. As it turns out he got a mosquito veil which has very small netting. An actual bee veil has a much larger mesh pattern and was MUCH easier to see through.

    Make sure you have the right veil for the job, it makes all the difference in the world.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    @Radar Sidetrack -

    My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).


    @Tom B-

    I've been using the veil the past two months and have gotten use to it in regards to visibility. My major thought / concern was when trying to look for mites or eggs. The fine details are rather hard to see. And trust me I'm definitely enjoying beekeeping so far; I'm learning 1-3 new things each time I interact and observe the bees.

    Do you get sun burned at all with your veil on? UV protection might be something for the veils?


    @ Aucoop94-

    Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?
    Honestly, I didn't know any better at first until I bought my suit, that's when it became obvious. The mosquito net makes everything darker and the ventilation is not as good. The main thing for me though was the visibility because it made it harder to find the queen or eggs.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    I only notice the mesh for the first few seconds of putting the veil on. After that, it is like it isn't even there. Only thing that gets me is how well the jacket i have holds heat.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared.Downs View Post
    @Radar Sidetrack -

    My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).
    Welcome to beesource. Bees be w/ you.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 07-15-2013 at 04:03 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  9. #9
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    What is it about Beekeeping that attracts people who feel they need to fix something which has been standard operating equipment for hundreds of years? Especiall those who have only been into beekeeping for such a short time? Do people really think others haven't thought of this before and found it lacking?

    Is it beekeeping? Or does this happen in other professions too?

    Welcome to beesource.
    @sqkcrk

    I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.

    Sqkcrk, I've read a lot of your posts and I've found your suggestions quite helpful but, sheesh! He's just excited about beekeeping and he's been a member of the forum for a month; not sure that's the welcome I'd want.

    I too am a new beek and as equally excited, but I guess us newbies need to be careful what we ask or post on the forum for fear that we may get reprimanded by some "old timers" that think nothing new can be invented or old can be modified.

    As for me, if Jared.Downs invents an air-conditioned bee suit I might be the first to purchase...It's fricken' hot during the summers here in Alabama.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    I, too, have trouble seeing through the standard bee veil. It is only a problem when looking for eggs, but then it is a big annoyance during a critical operation. For everything but egg searching, the standard mesh is fine.

    I have wondered about a veil with a mesh with larger, but still-bee-proof holes. It seems the standard mesh is much finer than it needs to be. Bigger holes would mean better fine detail resolution and better ventilation.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 12 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucoop94 View Post
    @sqkcrk

    I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.

    Sqkcrk, I've read a lot of your posts and I've found your suggestions quite helpful but, sheesh! He's just excited about beekeeping and he's been a member of the forum for a month; not sure that's the welcome I'd want.
    Quite right on all counts.

    Jared, the fellow who perfected the ultrabreeze suit may have some insights which would be of benefit to you and your efforts.

    May bees be yours.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 07-15-2013 at 04:05 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    I, too, have trouble seeing through the standard bee veil. It is only a problem when looking for eggs, but then it is a big annoyance during a critical operation. For everything but egg searching, the standard mesh is fine.

    I have wondered about a veil with a mesh with larger, but still-bee-proof holes. It seems the standard mesh is much finer than it needs to be. Bigger holes would mean better fine detail resolution and better ventilation.
    Stop looking for eggs. First day Larvae are much easier to see. So are cells w/ brood food in them next to empty cells. It tells you almost the same thing. A queen is present and laying.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  13. #13
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucoop94 View Post
    @sqkcrk

    I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.
    Yeah, I can be cranky can't I? Could someone invent an airconditioning system for my house which I could afford? This bowl of ice and fan just aren't cutting it.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  14. #14
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    sqkcrk - thanks for the suggestion!

    Not to get too far OT, here, but how does " . . . cells w/ brood food in them next to empty cells" signify a laying queen?
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 12 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    There's a larvae in that white goop which may be hard to see. Three days ago that was a newly laid egg. I've never seen cells w/ brood food in them w/out a larvae in it.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  16. #16
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    sqkcrk - Okay. Thanks.

    BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 12 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Could someone invent an airconditioning system for my house which I could afford? This bowl of ice and fan just aren't cutting it.
    Here you go ....

    $12 is fairly affordable ....
    http://www.walmart.com/ip/My-Sunshin...-Pool/19336121
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    What is it about Beekeeping that attracts people who feel they need to fix something which has been standard operating equipment for hundreds of years? Especiall those who have only been into beekeeping for such a short time? Do people really think others haven't thought of this before and found it lacking?

    Is it beekeeping? Or does this happen in other professions too?

    Welcome to beesource.
    You're one of my favorite posters Mark, but I have to wonder why you would even care about anybody else's equipment?

    I hope some egg head comes up with a better vale, I have terrible vision and would love to be able to find queens and see small larva.

    Don

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    sqkcrk - Okay. Thanks.

    BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.
    Wouldn't wider mesh be more flimsy? Less structural integrity? More susceptible to damage? I wondered the same thing myself.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  20. #20
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Was at work all day and not able to respond. Didn't think I was going to ruffle any feathers with this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucoop94 View Post
    The main thing for me though was the visibility because it made it harder to find the queen or eggs.
    @Aucoop94- Your comments match my initial reasoning for posting. Thanks for your feedback!

    @ mppatriots- The only time I really have a problem with it is the first few minutes and then as others have said you get use to it.

    Part of what sparked this thread was that my dad has bifocals or trifocals maybe? But either way, his eyesight isn’t even poor. It’s terrible. And I’m guessing he’s not the only person that has poor eyesight that puts on a veil when beekeeping.

    Combine the glasses and a veil and he must have a real hard time. (I don’t know how others with glasses fare or what they experience, because I don’t wear glasses but I would think that they have a difficult time).

    @sqkcrk- I noticed you’ve edited your post multiple times. I didn’t get a chance to see the first version (I’d love to see it, because there is value in understanding where you’re coming from and your frustration).

    So maybe one thing I failed to do in the OP was give everyone a little background info on myself. See the following:

    1)Yes, I’m really new to bee keeping. (Started my two hives on May 15th)

    2)I’ve made lots of mistakes but have been reading as many books and talking to as many experienced bee keepers as I can.

    3)My professional background is in product design; I’m an industrial designer that has a wide range of interests.

    4)I’m 24 years old, and have worked for a number of companies designing everything from gloves for outdoor companies, toys at Hasbro for Star Wars, firefighting equipment, jewelry, medical equipment, surgical tools, etc. I could go on and on. But one thing I’m not is an expert in any of those product categories. So anytime I know nothing about a product category, I do everything I can to learn about it and the nuances that are involved with it. This way the person that uses the product I worked on is able to have a positive experience.

    5)I got into bee keeping because I wanted to keep bees. Then as I was looking around for equipment. I noticed everything is either made at home (I’ve made all my hives and will continue too), or does not look as those it’s changed much over the years (of course there are newer products but my statement is towards the bulk of existing products). So if I can make a small contribution and a few people out there can benefit from some of my work; all the better.

    6)And sometimes, having no prior experience with something like bee keeping can lead to some great discoveries, because I don’t have 20 plus years of training that has lead me to think a certain way. Being new to it, I have an incredibly open mind (not that others don’t) but I’m learning and have questions about everything. And sometimes I look at stuff and ask why the heck a product is the way it is, i.e. the veil.

    7)You might hate me, because I’ve got a list of products I could design for bee keeping. They’re in my idea book. But I’ll save those for another day once I can show everyone that I’m not a crazy person trying to change bee keeping, just improve certain select aspects of it with functional improvements.


    Wider mesh can be stronger, it all depends on the weave and if the mesh is coated. But if the openings in the mesh get a little bigger, generally the mesh becomes thicker to compensate for the strength because stronger weaves, materials or coatings are more money.

    But if you can list the things you like and dislike, then I can work with you to make something that everyone here would appreciate and find useful.

    I’m not looking to get rich, just looking to find a way to do something that might be useful.

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