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  1. #1
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    Jun 2013
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    Default Veils / Black Mesh

    Figured I'd ask around about the thoughts and opinions on veils that people own.

    I just started keeping two hives this year with my dad. He went out a purchased a veil.

    When I used it the first time, I found it to be rather limiting in terms of my vision (my eyes are 20/20) but the mesh only a few inches from my eyes really throws everything off for me.

    Does any one else have problems with vision with their veils? Please post all complaints as I'd love to work on a solution for better vision / ventilation.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Of course the mesh impairs vision. But the choices don't go much beyond mesh or some form of clear plastic/glass. And condensation/fogging is a problem with plastic/glass.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  3. #3
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    Madison, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Don't worry, you will get used to having the veil over your head. Eventually, it will be the least of your concerns as the weather gets warm and your start having to lift full supers of honey with sweat running into your eyes and your glasses sliding down your nose and you inadvertently trap a bee between your finger and the handle of the box (ouch!). Then you will smile and say "I love beekeeping!"
    life is finite while knowledge is infinite. - Zhuang Zi

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    When my father-in-law went out and "purchased a veil" he got me one too, and I experienced the same thing. As it turns out he got a mosquito veil which has very small netting. An actual bee veil has a much larger mesh pattern and was MUCH easier to see through.

    Make sure you have the right veil for the job, it makes all the difference in the world.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    @Radar Sidetrack -

    My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).


    @Tom B-

    I've been using the veil the past two months and have gotten use to it in regards to visibility. My major thought / concern was when trying to look for mites or eggs. The fine details are rather hard to see. And trust me I'm definitely enjoying beekeeping so far; I'm learning 1-3 new things each time I interact and observe the bees.

    Do you get sun burned at all with your veil on? UV protection might be something for the veils?


    @ Aucoop94-

    Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?

  6. #6
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    May 2013
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?
    Honestly, I didn't know any better at first until I bought my suit, that's when it became obvious. The mosquito net makes everything darker and the ventilation is not as good. The main thing for me though was the visibility because it made it harder to find the queen or eggs.

  7. #7
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared.Downs View Post
    @Radar Sidetrack -

    My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).
    Welcome to beesource. Bees be w/ you.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 07-15-2013 at 03:03 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Just some of my own observations:
    I despise bee suits & veils but when I HAVE to wear a veil I use an Army surplus mosquito veil. They are about $3.00 and although the mesh is fine it is green which somehow makes the distraction. They are extremely light & collapse/ fold easily. Did I mention they are only $3.00?
    When I HAVE to wear a suit I use one with this veil or another separate unattached veil.
    I wear reading glasses which are just awful inside a veil so I've recently started wearing a single contact lens for bee work & I've liked this so much that I wear it most days all day - I highly doubt a reading lens incorporated into a veil has any legs.
    I've been keeping for less than ten years so I'm no expert but I feel confident in saying beekeeping DOES attract a certain personality type. New beekeepers seem to know everything within 2 years (usually less). These folk can transform beekeeping into a care free hobby with their supererior brains. Some can even keep bees in cities with a fraction of foraging plants that it normally takes to make a honey crop. I feel these are dumpster bees making corn syrup honey but they have their heads nuzzling their roof top hives and must have a real & personal relationship with, "their girls". It is tot BS but the bee magazines feel the warm & fuzzy this generates sells magazines.
    I've also determined beekeeping is full of old timers that have zero tolerance for new ideas. Their way is the best & only way.
    Check out AceBird's posts/replies.
    I am a big tinkerer & have a lot of ideas bout improving on how I keep bees and I am very open to new ideas.
    I am currently working on a SHB trap and have made a frame filling machine that you can loom at on this forum & YouTube.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    @Mark-

    Thanks for your comments on how you drink. Right now I'm just trying to get a full picture for all aspects of beekeeping. Especially since you do this every day it's all the more valuable hearing it.

    ...I'd love to do it all day every day, I'd do anything to not be in an office.


    @challenger-

    Thanks for your response! A $3.00 veil is mighty attractive because of the low price point. How do they hold up?

    Incorporating reading lens might not be something that is a marketable product due to the a variety of factors. But I still love the brainstorming that is happening. All ideas are great, because they'll help lead me to different ideas that I can test and either prove or disprove.

    If I could master this in 2 years that would be awesome....but I know I can't do that even in my lifetime.

    Per you comments about there being lots of "old timers" --
    I think a lot of professions, hobbies, activities, etc can often have people that want to slow the rate at with it evolves and progresses. And I can fully respect and appreciate that. There are plenty of things I'd love to see go back to "the way they use to be" to help connect people and give them a deeper understanding of what they're doing. But at the same time, I enjoy seeing certain things progress. I design medical equipment that is electronics heavy but I spent many moments through out the my day wishing I was on a farm some where raising cattle or anything farming related (I'm not a farmer, but it'd be nice to have a "simpler" life that was full of hard worthwhile work). But talking about "change" could be a lengthy topic in and of its self.

    @challenger- do you have a link to your youtube video? Would love to see what you've come up with.
    Last edited by Jared.Downs; 07-18-2013 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Incomplete senetences

  10. #10
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    Thumbs Up Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared.Downs View Post
    -snip-
    When I used it the first time, I found it to be rather limiting in terms of my vision (my eyes are 20/20) but the mesh only a few inches from my eyes really throws everything off for me.

    Does any one else have problems with vision with their veils? -snip-
    Thanks
    My experience as well Jared. :-/
    I suspect a little bit of personality is involved in the (in)tolerance for obvious poor design and the resulting poor vision with the veils/hoods with small mesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    -snip
    BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.


    Something the old timers know already is that there are two meshes available in bee veils......been that way for a very long time. Take the Square Folding Veil by Mann Lake and by most of the bee supply houses - It has ten mesh, a noticeable improvement from the mosquito netting sold to beekeepers.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Jared-the surplus veils IMO are great. They are super light & last a long time. I've never been stung through one. The drawback is the fine mess. I feel I got accustomed to it easily & maybe the green color helps. YMMV.
    Just go to Howardtoob or search frame filling machine. It is a simple design based on a utility tub sink, 3/4 HP motor with rpm reduced down to about 500 rpm using pulley reduction and a pillow block bearing for shaft/ flex coupling support. It was a lot of trial & error. I am not an engineer & have no formal education. I am also not the sharpest knife in the drawer from an IQ standpoint. I have very limited ability to learn through schooling. A lot of people tell me how smart I am but I know the truth & always explain that I can learn things quickly IF I am very interested in the subject matter. I'd love to have been able to get an engineering degree but, as I said, the classroom environment and I don't mesh. I have a mechanical mind and I've been fortunate to learn to not give up when I fail many times I take project too far before realizing a project isn't practical / viable. This is a big character flaw but I'm getting better at checking myself when my OCD is putting me in the squirrel cage.
    I know education gets you far but practical application is always the required step in any design. Having some education that allows oneto solve formulas would sure be nice & would certainly save a lot of time & money as opposed to my seat of the pants approach.
    You have a great background and a passion for this hobby which can make your ideas and design more fulfilling than the average hack like myself.
    Keep up the energy & I suspect we will see some things from your efforts that is new & valuable

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    As the old saying goes, "the pasture is always greener on the other side of the fence."

    The modern reality is that it's very difficult to make a living in agriculture today. That office job probably pays better, provides you with health insurance, and leaves you with time and energy to do what you enjoy with your days off. "A farmer's work is never done" is another old saying that is true for me.

    There are different types of intelligence. Mechanics takes a kind of intelligence that many who are 'school smart' don't possess. So, in some ways, you are more intelligent than many college grads.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Call me crazy, but I wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunBee View Post
    Call me crazy, but I wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.
    I'd like to see a picture of that.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunBee View Post
    Call me crazy, but I
    wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.
    Hey! You're crazy!
    I figured I'd oblige.
    I have one of these sitting in my shop & I've meant to try it which I will now thanks to your post. I was concerned bee might get tangled up in the fabric but I imagine if this was a problem you wouldn't have used it. Is it possibility too much material?
    I highly recommend to anyone that needs only reading glasses to give the single contact lens a try. Slipping, sweaty glasses make me nuts and the sweat dripping on the lenses as well.
    Another great find I came across lately is something called the, sweat gutter. It is a silicone band that has a U shape area over the forehead. Sweat runs into this channel and drips out in front of the ears. I just came across thus while looking at a way to keep sweat out of my eyes playing tennis. So far I feel it is a major help. It's not perfect if one has to bend over to grab something-sweat will run over the top. For me I'd say it is a 90% improvement. Maybe I'll need to do more testing when it gets hotter. Right now it is a balmy 175* & 99.999999 % humidity for the last week or two. Not really full tilt test conditions
    .
    This is the first year the heat has gotten the best of me. I normally get acclimated by having to work in the heat for hours a day. I did the same thus year but must have over done it for too long & ended up feeling like I just ate a quart of SHB slime for about two weeks. All better now though & I'll take the heat any day over cold temps

  16. #16
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    Jun 2013
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    @harley craig -

    Thanks for the anti fogging soap tip, I will have to give that a try. My coworker loved it too.


    @challenger-

    I watched the video and your setup looked awesome. But being that I'm so new to this, what was the need for the machine? Are you washing the comb? Treating it? Prepping it for long term storage?

    Oh and don't worry about education, my coworker that is a mechanical engineer talked with me about how his education was focus on metals while 95% of what we do deals with plastics so he said he uses a small portion of his college education. A lot of creating products or machine like you've done is all about trial and error and then figuring out how to improve it. I love your approach though.

    Oh and it was 99 here today, I'll take the cold any day (from New Hampshire).


    @gino45-

    Yeah the grass might be greener. I definitely think it would be incredibly tough / lots of hard work to make a living in agriculture. The big pit fall to what I do is that I've worked on a number of products the last few years a if I'm lucky 1 or 2 will become real products, due to a variety of reasons. I still get paid, but the personal satisfaction in knowing my work and effort paid off isn't there.

    The intelligence comments are interesting. It's hard to find a person that has the ability to learn from books and the hands on approach. But I'm a fan of being hands on since you get a feel from the true application. But since I'm new to beekeeping I can say I've had my head in a book the past few months quite a bit.


    @cajunbee-

    If you could post a picture, that would be awesome to see the setup you use.

  17. #17
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    Hudson, WI USA
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    I don't like the plastic veil on my Ultrabreeze jacket, or the plastic veil on my pigeon mountain full suit - they are not durable and tear easily. On the days I have to dig deep I wear the pigeon mountain full suit and an old wire mesh veil, plastic veil, and sweatband. Lighter days I just wear a veil, and skip both suits in favor of t-shirt and pants.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    You may think I am crazy but I'm even more lazy. If I am doing some quick hive work & it is very hot I wear a pair of shorts & sneakers. I smoke & wait a few minutes and a little more smoke after lifting the cover. I hate having to go through 5 shirts a day and veils are the first layer of protection I'll use. Even the veil is left off if I feel the bees are not angry. I must say I am very slow moving when I am so lightly dressed and if a few bees bang into me I'll put a veil & perhaps a shirt on. Normally I feel the bees go first & foremost for the ears, eyes & nose with all other body parts getting stung when a hive/apiary is on full blown stung the world alert.
    I'm not proud to say I've gotten stung on the eyelid twice this year, the nose more than that & the ears even more. All these locations can be painful & if I would just open the back of my truck & put the veil on they would ha e been avoided so I deserve the stings I get and normally wear a veil for the next couple of inspections. Then I'm back to being lazy & enjoying the clear vision.
    I use the frame filler for feeding hives 2:1 sugar syrup. Look at some past threads. I found filled frames are, by far IMOHO , the best way to fees bees. Once one has a filling machine the frames are filled 10 per minute with almost no waste & no more fiddling & keeping up with the other forms of feeding equipment.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    My old eyes cannot see eggs or very young larva through a veil. However, the veil I have presently, 99 percent of the time does not restrict my vision, at all. That is because I leave it hanging on a tree branch nearby and do not wear it. I find that my vision is much better and I do not overheat as quickly.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Veils / Black Mesh

    Will try to get a picture up when I get home on Monday.

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