Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 77
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, Calif. USA
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    it should be up to the pesticide manufacturers to prove their products DON'T harm bees in the field and are not a contributing factor to CCD.
    Dr. David Fischer from Bayer has already explained: "CCD has been reported from organic beekeeping operations and in locations far away from agricultural lands. It is also important to understand that CCD is a newly coined term for a symptomology that has been observed by beekeepers for more than 100 years. In their descriptive study of CCD, van Englesdorp et al. stated “since 1869, there have been at least 18 discrete episodes of unusually high colony mortality documented internationally. The idea that it [CCD} all started in 2006 and coincided with the introduction of neonicotinoid insecticides is a myth. Interestingly, there does seem to be a correlation between recent occurrence of CCD and the presence of residues of Varroa control chemicals. In these situations, hives with lower rates of CCD generally have higher varroacide residue levels. This suggests that beekeepers who are more vigilant in controlling Varroa are less likely to have CCD in their colonies. Varroa mites weaken bees’ immune systems and are themselves vectors of pathogens that may cause severe sickness in bees and trigger the CCD response. Ultimately, there is no credible scientific evidence demonstrating a link between the use of neonicotinoid insecticides and the occurrence of widespread honey bee colony losses, including CCD." http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibb...ayer-responds/

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    where theres smoke?? we still have guys running around claiming there are POW in Vietnam.........
    problem is ecoterrorist are smart... start lots of little fires... scream and squawk despite the facts.... and let the dump people and shameless reporters live on the dung piles left behind....... Kinda like global warming, which used to be global cooling, and now its climate change... Ahh heck who cares lets just tax Americans and give it to someone else and call it good....

    Its interesting to note. that a lot of articles list 25,000 as the count.... and suddenly as if by magic the new number is 50K....typical
    whats real odd is a quick goggle search will show over 1000 articles on the little bee kill.....
    Stupid people who are really bad at math, not even close to understanding the numbers of bees killed by low mowers and raid on a daily basis.

    We squawk over the dumbest stuff...... 1000's hits on a few dead bumbles, and not a darn thing on how things are going right........

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Wow Blue Diamond! You're on the clock at 1:30 am, huh? Are you ever going to tell us which pesticide company is paying you to post here?

    Of COURSE a Bayer "scientist" is telling us that neonics aren't a causal factor in CCD--nenoics are a $2 BILLION dollar a year product and Bayer is paying him to downplay any negatives to the use of their products.

    Tell me, when RJ Reynolds scientists lied to the public for decades saying that smoking didn't cause cancer (even though there is crystal clear, indisputable evidence that their own research showed that it did) did you believe them?


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    Dr. David Fischer from Bayer has already explained: "CCD has been reported from organic beekeeping operations and in locations far away from agricultural lands. It is also important to understand that CCD is a newly coined term for a symptomology that has been observed by beekeepers for more than 100 years. In their descriptive study of CCD, van Englesdorp et al. stated “since 1869, there have been at least 18 discrete episodes of unusually high colony mortality documented internationally. The idea that it [CCD} all started in 2006 and coincided with the introduction of neonicotinoid insecticides is a myth. Interestingly, there does seem to be a correlation between recent occurrence of CCD and the presence of residues of Varroa control chemicals. In these situations, hives with lower rates of CCD generally have higher varroacide residue levels. This suggests that beekeepers who are more vigilant in controlling Varroa are less likely to have CCD in their colonies. Varroa mites weaken bees’ immune systems and are themselves vectors of pathogens that may cause severe sickness in bees and trigger the CCD response. Ultimately, there is no credible scientific evidence demonstrating a link between the use of neonicotinoid insecticides and the occurrence of widespread honey bee colony losses, including CCD." http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibb...ayer-responds/

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    "The manufacturers of these bee-toxic chemicals are currently not required to carry out tests on their potential sub-lethal impact on bees. Unlike older types of pesticides that killed bees if they were unlucky enough to be in a field when it was being sprayed, these newer "neonics" – which are coated on the seeds of crops such as sunflowers, sweetcorn and rape seed oil and are transported through its sap, protecting them from bugs as the plant grows – are not lethal to bees on contact at the doses that have been licensed for use. But what the long-term cumulative impact is we just don't know."

    "The licensing authorities also do not require tests on how the pesticides may be affecting bee larvae. Bees collect millions of pollen particles from flowering plants and it's this bee food that contains miniscule amounts of pesticides. Honeybees bring it back to the hive and feed the protein-rich pollen to thousands of larvae before they metamorphosise into adult bees. You'd think the pesticide companies would be asked to prove their wares weren't harmful to these developing bees. But no."

    "A colony of honeybees is a superorganism, consisting of up to 50,000 individuals unable to survive by themselves for extended periods of time. To find out how damaging chemicals are to honeybees, we need tests on the whole animal – the colony. Again, nothing. So the pesticides have been approved for use all over the world without the relevant tests being conducted."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-pesticide-ban

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,987

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    ever wonder what we are doing right that there were 50000 bumbles in one spot????
    There are not 50,000 bumbles in one spot, Any more. the restrictions came to late for them. Plus 50,000 does not sound like a huge population to me anyway. maybe 7 million or so. so they are killing off an endangered species as far as I can tell. A creature already on the brink of annihilation.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,132

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Tell me, when RJ Reynolds scientists lied to the public for decades saying that smoking didn't cause cancer (even though there is crystal clear, indisputable evidence that their own research showed that it did) did you believe them?
    In multiple posts recently you have tried to link tobacco use/smoking/cancer to bees/GMO/neonics. There really is no connection. There are people on both sides of any controversial issue that are prepared to lie if they think it benefits them personally. For instance, there are multiple instances of individuals falsely making asbestos health claims. Of couse, inhaling asbestos is bad for humans, but here is a couple of lawyers and a physician convicted of conspiring to lie and make fraudulent claims about asbestos damage that simply did not happen :

    Two prominent Pittsburgh personal-injury lawyers conspired with a West Virginia radiologist to fabricate bogus asbestos claims against railroad operator CSX, a federal court jury in Wheeling, W.Va., decided on Thursday.Attorneys Robert Peirce and Louis Raimond, along with the doctor, Ray Harron, were ordered to pay $429,240, an amount that could later be tripled under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.
    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...s-case-667373/
    Shall we connect asbestos claims with bee health as well? After all, asbestos and tobacco both impact human health.



    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 07-14-2013 at 09:38 AM. Reason: spelling
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,443

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Wow Blue Diamond! You're on the clock at 1:30 am, huh? Are you ever going to tell us which pesticide company is paying you to post here?
    Continuing to make assumptions like this actually devalues your posts. You're focusing on the person instead of addressing what they have to say and arguing/debating the content. Reading this on the sidelines, Blue Diamond refrains from personal remarks and simply provides their side of the debate/discussion.
    Regards, Barry

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    You need to learn a bit about bumble bees.. they are a super small hive/ solitary insect. (depending on which species) so 50,000 in a spot is freaking huge. if you assume a 5 square mile area and EVERY bee in that are was there, that means in the state of oregon there are 9,486,660,000 bummble bees.... Means 50k was a huge nothing....in the sort of a 9.5 billion number

    ANd FYI,,, they almost all going to die shortly anyway(except queens...)

    Like I said a tragedy for those who are really bad at math... and like to make much tado about nothing.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    It was the largest known mass bumblebee death in Oregon history....an unprecedented level of killing of an estimated 150 colonies.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Radar you are right on this is about bee health and ccd not tobacco or any other subject. Too bad red herrings need to be thrown out.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    eolia, lincoln county, mo.
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    BigDawg; just as a point of reference this may be the largest kill in history, but to keep things in perspective the average bumblebee colony is about 50 bees per hive. That means that approx. 1,000 colonies were destroyed. This info is just to keep things in perspective and not skew numbers one way or the other.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, Calif. USA
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    The bottom line is the bumblebee and honeybee population in the Wilsonville, Oregon area was high at the time of the bumblebee kill incident despite years of using the Safari SG neonic insecticide; therefore banning neonics will won't help the bees because they were not in trouble to begin with. Plus the Safari SG only kills bees when it is accidentally sprayed on plants that are in bloom which rarely happens. Plus only a tiny percentage of the flowering shrubs and trees in the region in question are ever treated to begin with.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Bottom line: states have a right to ban or restrict pesticide use.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Bottom line: states have a right to ban or restrict pesticide use.
    yes they do, and we can boycott states that do dumb stuff.......

    Jeffinmo... Keep in mind that the "actual numbers" were doubled at least 2 times if you read closely, and no one ever counted......or even swept them up.......
    The state Etomoligist who went said maybe 10-15k in the first report.....

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,443

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    The bottom line is the bumblebee and honeybee population in the Wilsonville, Oregon area was high at the time of the bumblebee kill incident despite years of using the Safari SG neonic insecticide; therefore banning neonics will won't help the bees because they were not in trouble to begin with. Plus the Safari SG only kills bees when it is accidentally sprayed on plants that are in bloom which rarely happens. Plus only a tiny percentage of the flowering shrubs and trees in the region in question are ever treated to begin with.
    Given all that we know about this incident, this is a very reasonable bottom line. It was applicator error. All the other stuff is sideline noise.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    There was another incident in nearby Hillsboro where the trees were sprayed in accordance with the instructions (i.e. the trees were not in bloom) and there were a large number of bumblebees observed dying at the base of a few trees over 2 months after Safari was applied.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,987

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Charlie a good central figure for bumble bees is 2 to 300 bees per colony with a density of 3 to 4 colonies per acre. Given that bees can forage up to 5 miles that is a population of 19,200,000 bees. want to try again and make some number seem impressive?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    If a product goes off target, there's no debate.

    It killed native pollinators which should not have happened.

    The State of Oregon is in the right to act, even though it's media/politics.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,443

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    So what number are you using between 2 and 300? Site your source for the information as well.
    Regards, Barry

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,496

    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    .. It was applicator error....
    I love this! Applicator error! Barry, would you justify the same way if somebody in the hospital will make an applicator error resulting in serious damage to your poor bee body?
    Серёжа, Sergey

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads