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  1. #1
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    Default Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Go Oregon!!!

    In the wake of the death of over 50,000 bumblebees last month in Wilsonville Oregon, and growing concern about the fate of the nation's honeybees and the role the neonicotinoids may be playing in Colony Collapse Disorder, legislation to restrict neonic pesticide use was just proposed by Rep. Blumenauer of Oregon:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...ct_pestic.html
    Last edited by BigDawg; 07-13-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    were the bumbles killed specifically because a neonic pesticide was used, or would any pesticide applied on the blooming trees have produced the same results?

    If it's the latter then how does this bill solve the problem of the dying bumbles?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Go Oregon!!!

    In the wake of the death of over 50,000 bumblebees last month in Wilsonville Oregon, and growing concern about the fate of the nation's honeybees and the role the neonicotinoids may be playing in Colony Collapse Disorder, legislation to restrict pesticide use was just proposed by Rep. Blumenauer of Oregon:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...ct_pestic.html
    WELL Some thing is killing the bees. Europe thinks its partly neonicotinoids. If you actually know the answer, please tell us all. The award winning Swiss documentary MORE THAN HONEY is very good. Poses a lot of questions and some answers. Looks at bee keeping in four countries, Switzerland, USA China and Australia (Western Australia, its a big state, over 1 million sq miles). The movie trailer states there is a Noah's Ark for bees and he's been there. Guess where that is.

    It is a very serious problem, wish I knew the answer.

    Geoff

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Noah's ark for bees???

    How many people her in the US have bees?? How many people rely on wild swarms? How long have bees been in the USA??? and at what level??

    Answer these questions and you will realize there are more bees in NA now than ever before!.....

    Thats without adding Mason and Bumbles to the list........ ever wonder what we are doing right that there were 50000 bumbles in one spot????

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Noah's ark for bees???

    How many people her in the US have bees?? How many people rely on wild swarms? How long have bees been in the USA??? and at what level??

    Answer these questions and you will realize there are more bees in NA now than ever before!.....

    Thats without adding Mason and Bumbles to the list........ ever wonder what we are doing right that there were 50000 bumbles in one spot????
    There should be no NOAH's Ark. It would be nice if people lived peacefully and that included the bees. The bees have been around for 100 million years. I can't remember that far back. People depending on what you believe, about 7,000 years or 50,000 years.

    Since arriving in the USA in about 1622, bees did alright for a long time. Some covered most of the continent. They are very hardy creatures.

    The MORE THAN HONEY, features John Miller from Millers Bees. If the BBC program is right, it was his grandfather that first started migratory beekeeping in the US. Perhaps that is why MORE THAN HONEY chose to feature him. John Miller certainly says there is a problem with bees. Perhaps he is wrong.

    DAN Rather in a report in early April certainly highlighted a problem in getting enough bees for the almond bloom in California. The price went from $150 to $225 per hive. Four frames of bees were acceptable instead of the normal 5. He may have bee mis-informed. Then again he is only a reporter, so who can trust him.


    If there isn't a bee problem in the US, it will the BEST NEWS a lot of people have heard for a long time. Lets hope you are right and the others (including me) are wrong.

    Does the GM in GMCHARLIE stand for anything in particular.

    I hope your bees do well.

    Cheers

    Geoff

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    It's my understanding that in the early 50's there were about 5 million hives being maintained by beeks in the US and there are now less than 2.5 million.


    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Noah's ark for bees???

    How many people her in the US have bees?? How many people rely on wild swarms? How long have bees been in the USA??? and at what level??

    Answer these questions and you will realize there are more bees in NA now than ever before!.....

    Thats without adding Mason and Bumbles to the list........ ever wonder what we are doing right that there were 50000 bumbles in one spot????

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    It's a good question. The Wilsonville bumblebee kill is being called "the largest mass bumblebee death in Oregon history."

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    were the bumbles killed specifically because a neonic pesticide was used, or would any pesticide applied on the blooming trees have produced the same results?

    If it's the latter then how does this bill solve the problem of the dying bumbles?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetas View Post
    They are very hardy creatures.
    Then again he is only a reporter, so who can trust him.



    Does the GM in GMCHARLIE stand for anything in particular.

    I hope your bees do well.

    Cheers

    Geoff
    That is the real truth.. who can trust him?/ the guy who faked documents to make a presidental canidate look bad? or teh dan rather that rolled and set suvs on fire to make headlines???


    Check the california average for hives... yes there were some extremes, just like every dang year... clowns get the numbers wrong.... beek go out of business and don't tell suppliers...

    INCREASED number of acres in pollination.... You really need to understand that 20 years ago the number of hives needed in CA was tiny comapred to today. Every year that number of hives has grown.... and Migratory beeks are becoming more rare due to ageing and hard work.

    Dawg, I think your numbers are off.... Should be well over 3.5 million now. Never ever seen data for 1950.
    and reality is 300 years ago there were NONE........ ZERO......

    Real frustrated at people (mostly reporters) takeing a small nuget of truth and blowing stuff way out of proportion.
    Its like the tragedy of deer killed on the highway... Oh me oh my....! the truth is there are more deer than ever!...... Just like bumbles in that kill..... how many bees must there be in that county for 50000 to be in one spot at one time???? I shudder to think about that number!....
    Its not like there the last bees!

    Its also intersting to note that LINDER trees (eroupean) are KNOW BEE KILLERS so why don't we ban the trees also???

    The key is a dose of reality, not some stupid reporters story.... you guys do realize that either tax dollars or sales was the driving force behind these vidios and stories? these guys are not doing it for fun or chairty....... just michal moore wannabees... streatching a grain of truth for every cent its worth.... unfortunatly thats the society we are in right now....


    And yes, Its General Motors... I worked there for many years... got this email ID and had it since 1988.......

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    you guys do realize that either tax dollars or sales was the driving force behind these vidios and stories? these guys are not doing it for fun or chairty....... just michal moore wannabees... streatching a grain of truth for every cent its worth.... unfortunatly thats the society we are in right now....
    I think a huge irony is the frankenfood groups, vanishing bees filmmakers and national public radio executives who shamelessly exaggerate the dangers of neonics and GMO's in order to maximize sales and income are behaving just like 1960's era tobacco executives who stretched the truth to maximize sales and income.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    I've speculated before on how neonics, and other pesticides, could be banned on the local level.

    It looks like Oregon has figured it out as well.

    THIS WILL SPREAD.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    The 6 month sales restriction on Dinotefuran insecticides could be lifted if the Oregon Dept. of Agriculture determines the bee kill was solely due to applicator error.
    http://www.valent.com/newsroom/newsr...e-incident.cfm
    "We do not believe the scope of these measures is necessary with the information available, and we will work to get the restrictions lifted as soon as possible."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    And how long will the secretary of the Oregon Dept. of Ag. hold that position if it is lifted quickly?

    You really don't understand how politics works. It's 'the squeeze play'.

    The restrictions won't get lifted unless the price is right.

    Repeat this thousands of times across the U.S. .

    Sound familiar? It's what is most likely occurring in the EU.

    A Maltese lawyer doesn't suddenly 'get religion'.

    It's death by a thousand cuts for the defendants.

    By the way, I did see 'More Than Honey' at an art house.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    And how long will the secretary of the Oregon Dept. of Ag. hold that position if it is lifted quickly?
    You really don't understand how politics works. It's 'the squeeze play'.
    This is not a political matter. It's a simple pesticide accident. There will be a civil fine imposed on the applicator or his company of between $1,000 - $10,000. Probably closer to $1,000 if the applicator was confused by the label directions because they do not plainly state: "Do not spray landscape ornamentals when in bloom". Then the ban on Dinotefuran will be lifted and the matter will be closed and forgotten. Valent USA has already paid for the netting that was used to cover the Linden trees until they are finished blooming. No humans were hurt so it's not likely there will be a lawsuit. The neighboring State of Washington has already rejected a petition from the Xerces Society to restrict sales of Dinotefuran.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    You're naive.

    Once sharks smell blood, it just attracts more sharks.

    The pattern is set.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    You're naive. Once sharks smell blood, it just attracts more sharks. The pattern is set.
    Nah, remember the pesticide companies can sue the Oregon Dept. of Agriculture if they feel they have been treated unfairly. Just like with regard to the 2 year ban on neonics in Europe, Bayer has already publicly stated that it "reserves the right to review its legal options" http://www.agprofessional.com/news/B...209190501.html

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Right.
    It's about lawyers.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    For me and many others, it comes down to burden of proof, and, the precautionary principle. If, after sufficient research, it can be clearly established that neonics do not harm bees and are not contributing to and/or causing CCD, then clearly they should not be banned. However, they should be removed from the market until more research into their role in CCD is conducted.

    Where there's smoke, there's usually fire, and there are now dozens of published research papers that show how neonics are causing problems for pollinators. Until we know how to mitigate those problems, the products should not be sold. It's entirely too little, too late to wait for the EPA's 2018 follow-up review on neonic's safety.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    For me and many others, it comes down to burden of proof, and, the precautionary principle. Neonics should be removed from the market until more research into their role in CCD is conducted.
    "It has been shown _over and over_ that neonics and other insecticides harm insects in the lab. If people want to make a case for a ban, they have to show that they cause harm in the field. Not hypothetical harm.
    Following the "precautionary principle" no one would do anything new. For example, people were afraid of GM food. There is no evidence that GM food has harmed anybody consuming it. Same with neonics, there is no evidence that neonic treated crops have harmed colonies storing the nectar. The accidental spray and dust kills are another matter, but these have been going on for centuries."
    http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...=1&O=D&P=42700

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    ... Its also intersting to note that LINDER trees (eroupean) are KNOW BEE KILLERS so why don't we ban the trees also???....
    Really? First, linden, not linder; second - bees produce the best honey from the linden tree flowers. In Russia, such honey is highly regarded for its medicinal value to treat the cold. As a matter of fact, in Europe linden trees are widely used at boulevards to provide the shade and clean air (they are natural air-purifiers) - these trees provide nectar for urban bees and do not kill anybody if not sprayed with neonics.

    "Oregon officials say preliminary results point to an insecticide that was used on the nearby European Linden trees. The trees were sprayed with a pesticide called Safari to kill aphids, an insect that destroys plants and vegetation. Safari is part of a group of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are known to kill pollinators such as bumblebees, Associated Press reports. " http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sc...rking-lot.html
    Серёжа, Sergey

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Legislation to Restrict Neonics Proposed By Oregon Representative

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    "It has been shown _over and over_ that neonics and other insecticides harm insects in the lab. If people want to make a case for a ban, they have to show that they cause harm in the field. Not hypothetical harm.
    That's exactly what I mean by burden of proof. As someone who obviously works for the pesticide industry, you know very well that field studies on bees and pesticides are very difficult to do. But that said, it should be up to the pesticide manufacturers to prove their products DON'T harm bees in the field and are not a contributing factor to CCD. Interestingly enough, they COULD be spending money on such research, but instead, they're focusing on varroa--how convenient for them.....

    Following the "precautionary principle" no one would do anything new. For example, people were afraid of GM food. There is no evidence that GM food has harmed anybody consuming it.
    Hmmm....how many long-term human studies on GMO food safety has the GMO industry conducted? That would be ZERO.

    The truth is that there has been only a handful of human studies related to consumption of GMO's and, recent research has shown that glyphosate is an endochrine disrupter in humans, that glyphosate is being tied to breast cancer in humans, a recent study done in Germany in 2012 found glyphosate in all of the urine samples it took from non-agricultural workers in Berlin, at levels 5-20 times the limit for drinking water, and another recent study showed organ damage from to livestock being fed GMO feed. There are HUNDREDS of articles published in peer-reviewed journals that highlight the dangers to humans and pollinators from GMOs and their interlinked pesticides.

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