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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Quincy, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    280

    Default There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    Over the course of the last 9 days, we've given two frames of eggs, brood and larvae from the strong hive to the weak hive. Upon todays inspection, we did see larvae on a frame which was not there 9 days ago. So even though we did not see the queen, she must be there somewhere. I also did not see any eggs. Just capped brood, and larvae. This is a hive that swarmed over 30 days ago. I will include photos of what I saw. It would appear that some of the cells are drone, some are flat capped and must be worker. I did open a capping to check and saw the pupae which looked fresh. Also did discover a weird shaped cell (see photo).
    Comparison - look at the frame photo of the Carniolan frame which was donated. Hundreds of larvae on there.

    This is the colony we've tried a lot of different things to "fix them". I'm not impressed so far with what this queen has done, comparing her to her predecessor or the Carniolan queen. But maybe it will take a long time for her to get going?

    Italian Larvae


    Carniolan Frame of larvae and brood - to donate


    Weird Cell - what is this?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    If they swarmed 30 days ago, your current queen was probably an 8 or so day old larva. She hatched 8 days later. Then it took her roughly 2 weeks to mate and start laying. It could have been as much as 3 weeks. So, right now she's only been laying eggs for about a week.

    Give her some time, she might just come around.

    Also, that cell is just a place where they had extra space and decided to do something with it. I think I would just thump it off next time.

    Very nice pictures!
    Try it. What could happen?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Quincy, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    Thanks J. With not seeing eggs or larvae for several weeks I kinda freaked out. Their manner was docile, even though their numbers were way down, they still were going about business. I learned they were sealing pollen with honey to preserve it. Now I know they were "expectant". I guess the reason they did not do the paper combine is they didn't want it or need it. So this queen just needs to get acclimated and cranked up to do some egg laying.
    We'll probably not inspect for 2 to 2.5 weeks now and give her a chance.
    Thanks again for looking.

    The pics are reduced size. I just use an old point and shoot Kodak, 6MP with macro. That way I can do it with one gloved hand if necessary. When the wife is with me she is holding the frames for me. The camera is getting a bit of propolis on it, that makes it harder for it to slip out of my hands.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,316

    Default Re: There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    It takes bees to raise bees. You can't expect a small number of bees to raise a lot of brood. They can only raise a small amount of brood. As it builds in population, they can raise more brood...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Quincy, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    It takes bees to raise bees. You can't expect a small number of bees to raise a lot of brood. They can only raise a small amount of brood. As it builds in population, they can raise more brood...
    Thanks, that makes perfect sense. But if you are adding in frames of brood and eggs into a weakened and possibly queen less hive (in certain situations), does that put the pressure on the existing population to raise those new bees? How would one calculate or determine how many is too many? If the accepted rule is 3 frames in 3 weeks, I'd think we're talking thousands of added bees (considering the frames of brood/eggs are from a booming hive). In each of the two frames I've added, there is capped brood. Those would hatch, and then possibly help to take care of their sisters (on the same frame) in the new hive. Is that a reasonable assumption? I won't be adding in a third frame to this hive at this point as it would appear it won't be needed. So much to learn, so little time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,316

    Default Re: There's got to be a queen in there after all?

    >does that put the pressure on the existing population to raise those new bees?

    Yes.

    >How would one calculate or determine how many is too many?

    They should be able to quickly cover the open brood with bees. If you are careful not to get the queen you can leave the bees that are on the open brood. If you have an excluder and you're not sure you can spot the queen, you can shake all the bees off of open brood, put it above the excluder, wait an hour and then move it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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