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  1. #581
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,169

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    How about this. These year I started with 5 hives one I did not intend to harvest honey from no matter how well it did. So I consider I started with 4 productions hives. during the season In increased to 12 hives via swarm captures. Sold two. In addition I produced another 10 colonies via queen castles or minimal split methods. That is taking two frames of bees brood and provisions and giving them a queen. I also harvested 230 lbs of honey.

    Now given that 17 of my 21 hives where never intended to produce any honey. that the 4 colonies that where expected to produce have at times been the support for making the mini splits. had honey removed to support the development of some of those splits or have had fraems of brood taken to produce queens from etc. Some of the swarms that where not expected to produce honey at the beginning of the season. btu by far the majority of my hives could not be excited to nor did they produce one drop of honey for harvest. they have produced honey.

    Now do I divide m 230 lbs of honey by 21 to gain my average? Do I divide it by some number between one and 21 that for some arbitrary reasoning seems acceptable? OR do I divide it by only the number of hives that where expected to produce regardless of how many actually produced?

    It seems to me that the members of this group lack any ability to wrap their minds around something that includes even a minor degree of complexity. They are obviously unable to just make a determination and stick with it much less establish it as the standard.

    I say I averaged 57.5 lbs per hive regardless of those same hives supporting the expansion of my apiary by just over 400%. That those original 4 hives assisted so well that it resulted in additional production of honey is still credited to their performance not the additional colonies.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #582
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    30 hives into the flow, divided by the amount of honey produced.

    I manage 900 hives, that number varies from various points of the season, but when calculating average production to measure performance, I use the number of hives entering the flow, regardless of its configuration. Some die off along the way, but the number stands. Im not done yet, but looks like this year my operational yeild will be around the 180lbs mark. I will have had some hives pull off nearly 500 lbs alone, and other nucs that will have given me a couple of boxes.
    so show me the complexity in that, straight up yield estimate , lay it on the line

    if someone cant be the slightest bit honust with himself, how can anything that person said be taken seriously?

    oh, and I have also drawn out 900 boxes of foundation, but thats besides the point
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #583
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    lets first start with your blueberry honey crop, 4 barrels worth off of 30 hives, sitting on 15 acres of Blueberries?
    With another 80 acres of Blueberries 2.9 miles away.

  4. #584
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,595

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    > It seems to me that the members of this group lack any ability to wrap their minds around something that includes even a minor degree of complexity.

    Hmmm.

    Which group would that be?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #585
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    With another 80 acres of Blueberries 2.9 miles away.
    with the abundance of crop around, to provide your hives with 10 lbs of pollen stores for winter, what is your average honey yield on those 30 hives?
    those 30 hives sporting the 18 brood frame 200000 bee population nest
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #586
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    I have seen hives with foraging forces of probably 75 to 100000 bees, I know what these hives can accomplish when they have the resources infrount of them. You must be swimming in honey by the end of the season
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #587
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    30 hives into the flow, divided by the amount of honey produced.

    I manage 900 hives, that number varies from various points of the season, but when calculating average production to measure performance, I use the number of hives entering the flow, regardless of its configuration. Some die off along the way, but the number stands. Im not done yet, but looks like this year my operational yeild will be around the 180lbs mark. I will have had some hives pull off nearly 500 lbs alone, and other nucs that will have given me a couple of boxes.
    so show me the complexity in that, straight up yield estimate , lay it on the line

    if someone cant be the slightest bit honust with himself, how can anything that person said be taken seriously?

    oh, and I have also drawn out 900 boxes of foundation, but thats besides the point
    Again don't really care what you do or don't believe. A bunch of YouTube videos of my hives and others in area will easily PROVE correct.... You can argue ALL you want. BEEcareful.I'm giving you a lot of rope.......

  8. #588
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,576

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Averages are really just for bragging rights. Beekeepers have played games with these numbers for years. In our case it's pretty straightforward, every hive is a production hive and I calculate my average against the number of queenright colonies in our operation at the beginning of the main honeyflow. But that's just me. The only thing that really matters in the final analysis is how much investment in time and money went into your bees and how much income did that investment generate. Whether it is honey, pollination, bees, queens or any other hive product is immaterial. Increased hive numbers are great, and definitely have a value as potential income sometime in the future but until that income is realized it is an asset that is delegated to a lower spot on the balance sheet.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #589
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    BEEcareful.I'm giving you a lot of rope.......
    Ha, a lot of rope, give me a break,
    you bring a lot of exaggerated claims to the table, without anything to qualify the statements with
    Last edited by Ian; 09-10-2013 at 01:09 AM.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #590
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    In our case it's pretty straightforward, every hive is a production hive and I calculate my average against the number of queenright colonies in our operation at the beginning of the main honeyflow. But that's just me.
    That's how its done. Bragging rights, ya, but you also need to measure production from year to year somehow to be able to achieve targets within your own operation
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #591
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,076

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Again don't really care what you do or don't believe. A bunch of YouTube videos of my hives and others in area will easily PROVE correct.... You can argue ALL you want. BEEcareful.I'm giving you a lot of rope.......
    Why not just say it here? I didn't see your averages mentioned on youtube. It's not a trick question Tim I am genuinely interested and so is everyone else.

    Otherwise I don't see the point in spending pages hinting that you get a huge honey crop but never giving the real numbers. I've been asked about my honey crop sometimes and it is a very easy question to answer.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #592
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    I see, I quickly skimmed through some of the youtube posts of these hives,
    he is not talking about 30 hives, but rather only a hand full of hives and looked to be variability between those hives

    in the videos the I had seen, posted by Tim Ives, I did not see hives with populations of 200000, if those hives were at peak performance then id say over 75% of my operation houses hives with populations of well over 200000 bees. This year was a slow year for me, and I had my hives stacked eight tall boiling bees from the top.

    Tim, send us a youtube link of the hives your referring to PROVE your statments correct. Id like to see those 18 frames of brood
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #593
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    duplicate
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #594
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,095

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    I'm going by what I extracted and went into buckets.
    Sorry for pestering you about this, but I'll ask again and would appreciate a straight forward unambiguous definitive answer, did you extract 1350 lbs of honey from the hives you had on the blueberries? Thank you.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  15. #595
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,095

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    lets first start with your blueberry honey crop, 4 barrels worth off of 30 hives, sitting on 15 acres of Blueberries?
    I don't know where you got 4 barrels from. Didn't Tim report 90 lbs per colony from 15 hives? Do I have to go back and reread his Posts?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  16. #596
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,095

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    How about this. These year I started with 5 hives one I did not intend to harvest honey from no matter how well it did. So I consider I started with 4 productions hives. during the season In increased to 12 hives via swarm captures. Sold two. In addition I produced another 10 colonies via queen castles or minimal split methods. That is taking two frames of bees brood and provisions and giving them a queen. I also harvested 230 lbs of honey.

    Now given that 17 of my 21 hives where never intended to produce any honey. that the 4 colonies that where expected to produce have at times been the support for making the mini splits. had honey removed to support the development of some of those splits or have had fraems of brood taken to produce queens from etc. Some of the swarms that where not expected to produce honey at the beginning of the season. btu by far the majority of my hives could not be excited to nor did they produce one drop of honey for harvest. they have produced honey.

    Now do I divide m 230 lbs of honey by 21 to gain my average? Do I divide it by some number between one and 21 that for some arbitrary reasoning seems acceptable? OR do I divide it by only the number of hives that where expected to produce regardless of how many actually produced?

    It seems to me that the members of this group lack any ability to wrap their minds around something that includes even a minor degree of complexity. They are obviously unable to just make a determination and stick with it much less establish it as the standard.

    I say I averaged 57.5 lbs per hive regardless of those same hives supporting the expansion of my apiary by just over 400%. That those original 4 hives assisted so well that it resulted in additional production of honey is still credited to their performance not the additional colonies.
    Daniel, I get a headache translating your "where" in "were", maybe you could work on that?

    All I can tell you is how I figure my hive average, qualifying that other than nucs all of my hives are run for honey production. I fill all of my 4 way pallets w/ functional hives, about 550 colonies. I figure out how much honey I have in my buckets when all of the extracting is done. I use those two numbers to come up w/ my Honey Production Per Hive Average.

    I have a bunch of two story 5 frame nucs, I don't count them because I never intended to take honey from them.

    I used to work at milking cows for a small number of dairy farms during younger years. The herd average for milk production records was taken only on those cows CURRENTLY being milked when the data was collected. Once a month is my recollection. Just showing how different ag industries figure averages in different ways.

    If it's important enough for someone to say what their honey production average was they aught to be ready willing ,and able to explain how they came up w/ that number.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  17. #597
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,808

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    [This] year I started with . . . 4 productions hives.

    It seems to me that the members of this group lack any ability to wrap their minds around something that includes even a minor degree of complexity. They are obviously unable to just make a determination and stick with it much less establish it as the standard.
    I would be careful Daniel. You are trying to lecture individuals that do this for a living, when you do not.

  18. #598
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,612

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The only thing that really matters in the final analysis is how much investment in time and money went into your bees and how much income did that investment generate. Whether it is honey, pollination, bees, queens or any other hive product is immaterial.
    The tax man has the real number! If anyone wants to brag, let them use that number!
    Regards, Barry

  19. #599
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,095

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    Beekeepers talk about pounds per hive so they can avoid revealing dollars per hive which really can't be figured until just before the end of the year or right after. Depending on how well you keep your account books.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  20. #600
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,513

    Default Re: I would like to be a commercial beek

    thought it was 30 hives on 15 acres,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    30 hives on 15 acres.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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