Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,924

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    I had a problem with a mini nuc I was trying to start a queen in. trapping robbers sounds like a good idea just to end the robbing.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SLC, UT USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    3lbs is just a guess based on what the cluster looks like compared to a 2lb package. A screened deep full of flying and crawling bees is not the easiest thing to guesstimate. It took two days to catch that many.

    I started with 12 frames of unwanted honey. it's almost gone now after a week. We have had a lot of rain this week, so the robbers have not worked full days. But still, it has been disappearing fast.

    The grafted hive still looks good.

    If I have not mentioned before, I'm not recommending this procedure. This is an academic endeavor. One could easily ruin a hive if things were to go wrong. Just because its possible does not been it is the best solution. A frame of brood and nurse bees is a lot easier.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,907

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Quote Originally Posted by kendal.l View Post
    I'm not recommending this procedure.
    Well others are clearly thinking of trying, and as you say it has been so successful for you, no doubt they will go ahead.

    Be interesting to see how it works out for them.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SLC, UT USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I had a problem with a mini nuc I was trying to start a queen in. trapping robbers sounds like a good idea just to end the robbing.
    trapping robbers won't stop the robbing. they will keep coming. if it is just a mini nuc, shut down the entrance and move it. better to figure out why there is robing and fix the problem. robing is like a sinking boat—you have to find the leak and plug it up. catching the robbers is just like bailing with a teacup and there is a whole ocean out there.

    if you catch a hive being robbed. you can shut it down with the robbers inside, wait three plus days and see, but from others experience, this does not always work. if you are curious like i was and the hive is expendable, give it a try. if not i would shut down the hive, stop the robbing and play it safe.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    520

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    I would just like someone to mention that "setting" up the/a robbing situation to try and trap bees to add to your weak hives wouldn't be the best recommendation etc.. You didn't mention if the robbers were coming from your hives or your neighbors. But actively targeting and providing "free" syrup to the area is not right. Hopefully, your trapping your own robbers vs. others.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,803

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Brandy... Exactly correct... At any rate, why would you waste honey, sugar syrup, cantaloupes, etc., to attract and promote robbing, only to attract field bees. These bees have only a very few days of life left. By the time they become robbers they are very near the end of their life cycle.

    If these robbers are your bees, you are taking away foragers that should be working to make honey in your hives. If these robbers are your neighbors bees, then you are trapping his bees for a very dubious result.

    To feed them, to attract more robbers, to trap them, then add to an existing colony, with only a few days of life left, just doesn't make any sense.

    cchoganjr

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,903

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    I have tried it. I don't think it's worth the effort. It works, somewhat, if you can confine them three days without killing them from heat. Somewhat is because they often have already killed the queen, or if confined may kill her while you are waiting for them to reorient. You end up with some of the robbers staying but, as mentioned, they tend to be older bees anyway and even if you're not queenless the hive was already weak, then decimated by the robbers and now joined by a bunch of old robber bees. It sounds better than it is... and more likely they are also queenless...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SLC, UT USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Good points Michael. in the case of a "trap in" during a robbing event the queen is at risk or already gone. this is not what i have done. i'm doing an experiment to prove or disprove a concept that such things can be done, but not willing to recklessly sacrifice a good queen.

    my experiment was not trapping in robbers in the hive they were robbing, but rather collect them separately and graft them into another colony. what i did was start/jump start a weak colony that was no more than a new queen and single frame of young bees. my set up was with the new queen and a brood frame (effectively a small split) in the bottom box with a screen divider that keeps the robber population confined on top in a separate box while the robbers reoriented for three days—the populations can touch/communicate through a screen, just not physically mix. the hive is well ventalated with a bottom screen and the robbers have a feeder. after three days, i removed the screen and closed off the entrance to let the populations mix, but not let the robbers exit quickly. then open up at dusk. the net result is a full hive of bees in various stages of life from many sources successfully grafted together, queen intact—an artificially matured split.

    it was a crazy idea. fun to do and by all signs, successful in jumpstarting the hive to a more mature colony than it would have been otherwise in just a few days. could it have been done easier with brood frames and nurse bees, sure, but this was an academic endeavor, for fun and learning. i had read too many people disagree about whether or not it was possible with such zeal it was too tempting to not do it. i admit i am disappointed and the negative responses and discouragement i received here even innuendoes that i'm lying about the successful result. it would have been easier not to share the experience by posting, but i thought there would be others out there with the same fascination and curiosity an i have.

    practical applications if what i learned are small and arguably unneeded. but i am an urban hobby keeper and do this for entertainment, not money. perhaps what i learned will come in handy some day, perhaps not. i don't care. if this makes no sense to you, you have missed the point. move on, there is obviously nothing for you to see here.

    As for the wasting honey, it was a rotting old hive given to me by a neighbor that was all bound up with cross comb and full of dead bees smashed in the comb. i moved the bees to a new clean hive and did not want to deal with the dirty honey—i have plenty of clean stuff for myself and don't need more work. rather than throwing it out i figured i would donate it to all the ladies willing to clean it up. i had plenty of willing volunteers show up to clean the honey and pack it away in clean comb across the neighborhood. instead of wasting the honey by sending it to the land fill, i upcycled 110 lbs of it to my neighbors and the local ferral hives (consider it an apology and compensation for capturing some of your field bees). the "donation" of honey and watching the bees rob out this beeless hive as well as pester my weak colony is where the "crazy idea" was spawned.

    we have two other experimental grafts ready to open up in the next few days (one is a fresh started colony the day of field bee the graft). these are to see the first trial was just a fluke. i'm expecting them to be just as successful based on the behavior changes we are observing in the graft, but i'm getting that this is the wrong audience to share the experience with. my apologies for bringing it up.
    Last edited by kendal.l; 07-09-2013 at 02:15 PM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,743

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Looks like you may have learned something. That's good.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,803

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    [QUOTE=kendal.l;969174] if this makes no sense to you, you have missed the point. move on, there is obviously nothing for you to see here.

    Thank You. I assume that remark was directed at me, so, I will just move on.

    So much for trying to help someone. I thought that was what this forum was for. My apologies.

    cchoganjr

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,907

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    I think it would be me he was talking about.

    I've been disbelieved, and accused of many things, since I've been on the net. It's a thing one has to harden up about, can't take it personally.

    Rather than accuse you of lying, I merely questioned you about something you said that was impossible, being you had 3 lb's of robbers in empty honey boxes, then quite a bit later there was still honey in there. The reason for questioning was not to make you a liar, but to see if what you are observing or your interpretation of it is what actually happened.

    Thing is, the premise you base this on, being old field bees re orientate in 3 days, isn't right. They will if the original hive has gone. If it is still there they will return to it.

    When I was new in bees, I tried pretty much the same experiments as you, even made a special screen for it in the school woodwork shop. Only result I ever got was the bees when released returned to the original hive, and then, if the other hive was weak and had a decent amount of honey they would return to try to rob it. Usually successfully because they were now accepted by the other bees and could walk right in. Over the 40 years since then I've learned a little more about robbing behaviour, the ins and outs of bee orientation, and other things, that don't stack with your results.

    So, I'm not accusing you of lying. If you got these results & have bees collecting pollen etc, I totally believe you. Just, sometimes what we observe did not always come about in the way we think it did. However for you it might have, I wasn't there so cannot say.

    A chat site is about discussing things, and discussing things is about differing opinions. No point getting sore about it, just accept that's what happens.

    I would still be interested to see what happens if someone else tries it.

    And, there are older threads where it's been tried.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SLC, UT USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Thank You. I assume that remark was directed at me, so, I will just move on.

    So much for trying to help someone. I thought that was what this forum was for. My apologies.

    cchoganjr
    i was not asking for help. i do however appreciate your willingness to offer it.

    my statement was not directed to you, but rather meant as a blanket statement to all who were not seeing the point and to move on rather than question the purpose as foolish. sorry how it came out. it does look like i was snubbing you—not my intent. please accept my apologies.

    my purpose in posting was for those like me who wonder about how everything works. for those who open up their hive for no reason other than just see what's going on inside. if you are looking for a reason beyond curiosity and wonder, you won't find it. i did it because i could. i admit i have muddied the water by suggesting practical application.

    again, i think this was the wrong place to come with this discussion.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,907

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    Double post
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 07-09-2013 at 09:32 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,924

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    I have found this info interesting due to a recent event I had. I set up mini mating nucs and any of them that where a bit weak had robbers in short order. my answer was to provide an empty mating nuc with sugar water on it. as long as that water was available the robbers stayed after it and stayed away from my queen rearing nucs. I did not think to trap them in it until I saw this thread.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    520

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    My comments were based on if I was your neighbor and found out that your were supplying free syrup, free frames of stores etc... (Who knows what else is in those frames).. and were then trapping my foragers.. Even using lang. hives to condition them additionally to test out further hives. For all the trouble your going to to learn something as you say, why not spend the time on building up your hives with your own resources vs. your neighbors.

    If mini nucs are being robbed add some robbing screens, reduce the entrances, add some resources.. Lots of learning situations vs. these actions..and now we're sharing these ideas... great

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,903

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    >it was a crazy idea. fun to do

    I thought it was worth seeing what would happen too. I understand why you would try it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SLC, UT USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    trial 2 (same yard, seasoned boxes, new queen, one frame of brood and nurse bees, no honey stores. held 3 days before release.)

    trial 3 (half mile, new boxes, new queen, two brood frames and honey stores all put together with the robber bees on the same day. held 4 days before release.)

    if anyone was wondering, both took, no robbing or mass killing as some sources suggested. proof enough for me that field/robber bees can be grafted into another hive through forced confinement even if the bees are not moved 5 miles. exactly what percentage stayed i can't say, but it is obvious that there are many times more bees than were put in with the brood frames.

    my last word/disclaimer is that there is very little practical application for this as i have done it which was to test a disputed concept the possibility of robber bee reorientation through forced confinement. please don't try to do this to build a hive—there are easier more proven ways to do that. however, should you find a hive being overrun with robbing and if what i experienced was not a 3 time fluke, rather than abandoning the hive to total loss, you might try closing up the hive completely with the robbers inside (with proper ventilation) and wait 3-4 days for them to settle and the robbing to stop then reopen the hive. if the queen lives, the robbers might reorient as they did in our trials and leave you with an intact hive that hopefully is stronger than before the robbing and not weaker.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,907

    Default Re: capturing robbing bees

    If anyone tries it please also report.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads