Shouold testing prove it was the case, It would be the first huge die off from corn planting dust...... Somehow I am sure there is something else going on here.....Quite teh Feel good article..... Testing is inconclusive... hmmm we know how to test for neonics... and yet that was inconclusive??
The wild flowers are great source of forage so long as the seeds are not treated with neonics. I have questioned several here in NC about the seed treatment. People that should know but no one has an answer. Or are we killing our bees in with these flowers?
here's an example of what could happen here if neonics ever get banned: http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/art...ia-4669376.php
be careful what you wish for
Organophosphate(s) is using in combination with other pesticides and on GM crops. Did you see that article about potatoes in another thread? They treated potatoes 10 or more times here in US, NOW. Why you worry about Indian kids (sure, we all worry) and do not worry about your own? Do you know what they eat at school? If they did not die, it does not mean, they are on healthy diet. Sorry, nothing personal. The answer for the most pesticide issues was proposed by Jim Lion if I remember correctly on this forum and it is very simple - crop rotation. I would add - and other nature-friendly techniques (soil enrichment, multiculture, beneficial insects/plants etc). I am just curious, if that organophosphate in India was produced in US?
CCD is not caused by pesticides. Will insecticides kill bees? Of course they will. That is why they are called insecticides. Properly used do they kill any significant number of bees? Nope. No different than cars. Cars kill people. Properly used they do not kill people. With cars you follow the traffic laws. With insecticides you follow the label rules.
Last edited by Barry; 07-18-2013 at 06:47 AM. Reason: quoting/personal remarks
Actually the jury's still out on pesticides killing bees (hence all the articles). The EU's agricultural board just banned ANOTHER pesticide because they deemed it was..."identified as posing an acute risk to Europe's honey bee population". Those are agricultural scientists.
Last edited by Barry; 07-18-2013 at 06:48 AM.
Of course [insecticide] pesticides kill bees, and many other insects!
Just to be clear, I am not advocating banning of pesticides. They are very useful when properly applied, in accordance with the label (and Federal law). As Richard Cryberg correctly pointed out, simply because a product has the potential to cause harm (like automobiles do) is no reason to ban that product!
--- Practical reality trumps philosophy!
Okay, perhaps I should say the jury's still out on pesticides causing CCD.
I'm not rabid. I'm not some hipster. I understand the value to agriculture of pesticides. But that has no bearing in an objectively critical conversation about the causes of CCD. People love to put the cart before the horse when a potential conclusion isn't to their liking.
It's pretty obvious he means pesticides unintentionally killing bees....That's the heart of the issue.
And, in fact, you can see above that Hedges has revised/restated his position, but his revised comment does not match yours.
--- Practical reality trumps philosophy!
ban neonic pesticides and the US starts using organophosphates.
Unlike Neonic pesticides which are designed to not impact vertebrates, Organophosphates target all organisms, including large mammals (such as humans) and as we can see Organophosphates can "kill humans dead". Also contrast that Organophosphates spray directly into the environment (land, air, water) and is used as a potency at the discretion of the farmer, vs seed treatments which are pretreated with the intended potency before given to the farmer and the pesticide stays with the plant (aside from a little bit of talc dust in off-label usage).
This is essentially the hypocrisy of the 'ban neonic' movement laid to bare. To sum it up, they want to move away from the safer modern pesticides and go back to the previous generation of pesticides that were much more toxic than DDT!
Or ban both and find some other way to keep crops viable.
And for the record, I agree with big dawg. You can play cute, deflective semantics games all day, sidetrack. No one's going to change their views for it.
GMO would be viable alternative to pesicides. Even so, I think you'd want to have something viable AND online and working before you ban an essential product that's core to feeding the 5 billion people in the world.
otherwise it's essentially mass starvation until a new alternative is online.
and I might add, the case for banning Neonic pesticides hasn't been made. It seems like streamlining how its used (seed treatments not requiring talc, better education and monitoring on spray-based and root based treatment) is a much better solution than banning it.
No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
That said, I'd expect in 10-15 years most insect pesticide will be obsolete, replaced in near entirety by GMO plants
If pesticides are the cause of CCD I will never have a single hive die of CCD. I live in a forested area. The closest Ag row crops are over three miles. Bees do not fly a mile to forage in forests. Yet two beeks who are in exactly the same situation I am in experienced losses last year of 80% and 10%. I was lucky and did not have any losses in my four hives. Real close on one thou. It barely made it thru the winter and not due to lack of food either. April 15 it was one frame of bees. The 80% loss was package bees from the south. That guy also does nothing at all to control Varroa. Both myself and the guy who lost 10% do non chemical things to control Varroa. The guy who lost 10% was seeing more like 30 to 40% only four years ago. But he has pushed hard on the genetics (only strong survivors stay around) for the last ten years. It is pretty obvious his genetics are getting better. He also goes thru every frame of brood weekly and mechanically grubs out all drone cells. By far my best hive is one of his swarms.
I do have a few weed fields (mainly grass) that gets cut for horse hay once a year that are in my bees area. There is zero chemical input on those fields. The bees get practically zero forage from those fields. Walk out into one of those fields and you can not find a bee. Cutting once a year, generally sometime in July, kills all the bee friendly weeds such as golden rod and asters. Slowly some birds foot trefoil is moving into those fields so maybe in a few years they will produce a little honey. My whole spring honey crop is trees starting with maples in March and ending with basswood in early July. They probably get about a pound from clover in my yard in late June. No chemical input on my yard. Why would I want grass to grow faster? From mid July until early September all they have of the slightest significance is birds foot trefoil in the ditches. That does not even cover the honey they use to raise brood for those six weeks. The fall flow is all golden rod and asters from ditches and unmowed edges of hay fields and openings in the woods.
So, if CCD is a result of pestcides how can it exist where I live? Yet it clearly exists big time. It is by far the largest single problem in keeping bees locally. It is just as big a problem here as it is right next to a thousand acres of corn or beans.
For example, no long-term field studies of the impacts upon bees by neonics have been conducted. Similarly, manufacturers are not required to carry out research relative to the sub-lethal impacts upon bees, nor are they required to research the impacts upon bee larvae due to the build up of neonics residues inside the hive and comb.
Given the growing body of scientific evidence clearly demonstrating harm to human health, harm to pollinators, and harm to feedlot animals from exposure to GMO's, the growing global movement to ban them, and the growing dissatisfaction from farmers who are seeing their seed and pesticide costs soar year after year, and the continued incidences of GMO "ghost crop" contamination like the Oregon wheat and the GMO "rice gone wild", I would expect that in 10-15 years GMO's and neonics will become nearly obsolete due both to rapidly declining consumer demand and new regulatory guidelines that actually protect the public and pollinators.That said, I'd expect in 10-15 years most insect pesticide will be obsolete, replaced in near entirety by GMO plants