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Thread: CCD Research

  1. #221
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    They use beetles on purple loosestrife.
    Biological control of loosestrife has shown to be effective only until the next flooding event both drowns the beetles and spreads the seed downstream. We saw little loosestrife bloom in 2009 and 2010 then the floods of 2011 set up a big loosestrife bloom in 2012.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  2. #222
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    It's probably alot safer to keep bees near neonic coated seed crops (after planting) than near an invasive eradication site.

    Farmers are alot better at controlling the amounts of pesticides applied because of costs (they'll go broke otherwise), and they're producing food or feed.

    Eradication programs use massive amounts of pesticides, they're very expensive, and they don't want to miss anything. For example, nobody eats trees, last I heard.
    Why WLC, I think thats the nicest (and smartest) thing I have ever seen you write! Congratulations

  3. #223
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    gmcharlie:

    You're welcome.

    You pay for a technology, and you expect to get your money's worth, without any negative impacts.

    We all know the dust issue needs to be fixed.

    However, after reading the Goulson review, I can't believe that there is a soil type where clothianidin has a 1/2 life of over 15 years!

    No farmer alive signed on for that kind of a surprise.

  4. #224
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    like thats a bad thing?? hmm seed coating needed only every 10 years or so?? wish roundup worked that long!!!!!!!!

    (just kidding)

  5. #225
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    It's probably alot safer to keep bees near neonic coated seed crops (after planting) than near an invasive eradication site.

    Farmers are alot better at controlling the amounts of pesticides applied because of costs (they'll go broke otherwise), and they're producing food or feed.

    Eradication programs use massive amounts of pesticides, they're very expensive, and they don't want to miss anything. For example, nobody eats trees, last I heard.
    I am not sure of what rate equates with massive or what costs will break a farmer financially but here are a few facts. To kill off or burn down with glyphosate prior to a conservation reseeding requires a bit less than a half gallon per acre. The cost including application is about $20 dollars per acre. I did just such a reseeding a few years back on 100 acres of marginally productive land that I put into the conservation reserve program. I have maintained about 40 hives without any ill effects adjacent to the planting each year and they have always done well each year including the year the spraying was done and, of course, right across the road is the ever present corn field. I reseeded with a mixture of alfalfa and native grasses (Big Bluestem, Little Bluestem, Indiangrass and Needlegrass). I walked through it this morning doing some spot spraying of thistles and what a wonderful habitat it has become, alive with nesting birds and buzzing bees. The costs of the native grasses together with the planting was the biggest expense at about $50 per acre.
    Last edited by jim lyon; 07-05-2013 at 01:19 PM.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #226
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Well, soil type, and conditioners used, might explain alot of the discrepancies we're hearing about with regards to colony losses.

    If you have the right soil type, the product has a low 1/2 life. The bees are fine.

    If you have fuquay sandy loam, you're going to get residue build up. That could be a big part of the whole 30% winter loss issue.

  7. #227
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    If you have the right soil type, the [neonic] product has a low 1/2 life. The bees are fine. If you have fuquay sandy loam, you're going to get residue build up. That could be a big part of the whole 30% winter loss issue.
    No, because the geographic extent of fuquay series soils is very limited and not much corn/soybeans/canola/sunflowers are grown in fuquay soil areas. Corn for all purposes map: http://schillerinstitute.org/strateg...poses_usda.jpg
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  8. #228
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    WOW thts intersting... The soils with the worst traits are located around where over 1/2 the package bees come from.........worst 1/2 life... best bee production.... from that I could conclude there a good thing!
    GA package producers have pretty much 0 wither losses!

  9. #229
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Jim:

    Good job on the CRP native grasses. But. I was largely referring to the cost of treating trees, etc., w/ insecticides.

    Bluediamond:

    I think that the only way to answer the soil type vs colony losses question would be for someone to take available data and create a GIS map with overlays for colony losses and soil type.

  10. #230
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    You do not want to have colonies anywhere near conservation efforts to eradicate an invasive.

    They're known to use very large amounts of insecticides/pesticides.
    Around here they aerial spray forest preserve land for gypsy moths using Bacillus thuringiensis kurstaki (Btk).
    Regards, Barry

  11. #231
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Interesting, you have protection using neonics only for 2 weeks? So, basically, you use neonics AND on top of it other insecticides! Horrible!
    you completely missed the point, again....
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #232
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Even the reported basic bee management isn't believable as it is written up. Hives were full in May and never required swarm prevention, never superd, never spun frames out, never added empty comb....and they were all being fed all summer...........

    None of it makes any sense, and no explanation is offered...yet, Dr. Lu thinks policy should be changed based on such results.
    Science and methodology arguments aside, Deknow makes a good point here. The reported bee behaviour and management sounds like the whole thing is a bit of a jack up. My suspicion is that at some subconscious level the researchers had an end goal in sight and set up an experiment to prove it. Scant attention was paid to peripheral details that did not fit the plan.

    Could be wrong, but it does look that way.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #233
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/...pFI/story.html
    Winter came, and they saw nothing. The hives seemed fine. “We were starting to get discouraged,” Warchol says. “Dick and I were talking, saying, ‘Wow, there’s really nothing going on.’ ” Lu had the same reaction. “At that time,” he says, “I thought my hypothesis was wrong.”
    also from that article, wrt dosing:
    On July 1, 2010, they started the pesticide regimen, beginning with very low doses, to make sure they didn’t kill the bees right away. They upped the amounts after four weeks to levels that Lu says were on the conservative end of what bees encounter in the real world — through syrup made from corn treated with neonicotinoids or nectar and pollen collected from contaminated flowers and crops.
    which also makes zero sense. if they anted to make sure they didnt kill the bees outright, when they upped the dosage, they would not have made the "new lowest dose" twice what the "old higher dose" was.....not to mention that bees don't encounter imidacloprid in HFCS in the "real world".

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  14. #234
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    I've been told that Lu doesn't care about bees at all and know nothing about them. the end game for him is to show that neonics affect the human brain in a similar manner.

  15. #235
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Well that should be easy to prove, using the same methods. Make the test people drink neonicitiniods at a level just low enough to not kill them outright. Later, double the dose. You will have proof that neonicitiniods are damaging to human brains, and maybe even fatal to the human.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #236
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well that should be easy to prove, using the same methods. Make the test people drink neonicitiniods at a level just low enough to not kill them outright. Later, double the dose. You will have proof that neonicitiniods are damaging to human brains, and maybe even fatal to the human.

    Wer WLC, border beeman and a cpl others involved in that test??????

  17. #237
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    GMcharlie:

    I probably consume more neonics than those bees did.

    First of all, I would have chosen clothianidin.

    Secondly, I wouldn't have used the CCD term in my hypothesis. Just plain 'impact on Honeybee health'.

    Thirdly, if I wanted to test HFCS for contaminants, I would have done so directly, although there is no evidence for neonics in HFCS.

    Let's face it, Lu got lucky.

  18. #238
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    It was a tounge in cheek comment about testing effects on humans........intended as a bit of wit... albiet small...

  19. #239
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    You were, huh? And who told you that?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I've been told that Lu doesn't care about bees at all and know nothing about them. the end game for him is to show that neonics affect the human brain in a similar manner.

  20. #240
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    Default Re: CCD Research

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Real easy, because the options are not only worse, but ludicrious........... If you yell fire in a crowded theater and there is none, its a crime, but who knows some day you may be right...

    Right now a bunch of goofballs with no real stake in the game are screaming about something they are totaly clueless about.... 2 years ago it was cell phone towers.........

    Sorry, but Most here screaming the loudest, have no real stake. they are not in Neonics areas, they only run a few hives, and they don't farm......Those that feed the world, are in the most part the most eco friendly people you will ever know, and do more on a DAILY basis to help feed and improve the world, and their own lives, than the sreaming clowns.

    Guys like Tim Ives, Ron Householder myself and thousands of others are in the thickest areas of "the problem" and yet doing great... that doesn't matter to these "experts" Ask Tim which Scentist has been to his place, or responded to emails......

    These guys are the same ones screaming about unsafe food, high prices, and goverment subsidies all in the same conversations. they have no answers other than to scream and whine about something they personaly are pretty clueless about, they site what they read as Fact, without regaurd to the methods or logics behind them.......
    One..... Randy Oliver spent a day here, I took him to 3 different yards. The most notable yard is the Apple Orchard which I keep bees at year around. Corn fields 4' away from hives, Apple trees get sprayed 3 times a year with Assail (a neonic) dandelion below the first time, Dutch clover below the second time and buckhorns the 3rd time. Zero loss of hives and my absolute best honey producing yard. Partially due to the 60 acre CRP across the road. 1/2 mile in 3 different directions SEED CORN. Which gets even more insecticides used on it vs $7 bushel maize.

    If neonics are the problem I shouldnt have any bees. 9 different yards, everyone you can throw a stone to hit a corn/bean field.

    Before all this vast acreage of fields get planted, solid purple with hensbit, purple deadnettle and chickweed. That's what my beed are building up on. Mid to late July bees are putting up supers of honey from soybeans..

    So what is really the problem??? O yes sugar free and treatment free hives....

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