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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Posts
    259

    Default 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    I have three boxes on, each being 8 frame mediums. The third box has almost 4 frames drawn out. The undrawn 4 frames are foundationless.
    If i do my math right I have just about 20 completed frames with a total of 24 frames in the hive for a 83.3% full hive.

    I did see a supercedure/emergency cup on frame #5 (counting left to right) of the third box. That frame is full of capped drones and honey and surprisingly had the queen walking around on it. I attached a picture. I'm quite curious if you think she looks OK, she seems skinny to me. She has been laying great patterns, I don't see a problem with her laying.

    I don't see any cups elsewhere but I didn't look into the 1st and 2nd box.





    Questions:

    Should I add the fourth box now? Since I'm technically at 84% full.
    Should I be concerned with the supercedure/emergency cup?
    Does this picture make my queen's butt look skinny?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cary, NC USA
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    Most hives will have at least a few queen cups, you shouldn't be alarmed about that. Having said that I do make sure to keep a close eye on those cups throughout the year. If you see larva in them or they start to get drawn out into full fledged cells you've got to start taking action or you'll likely have a swarm or two. That queen looks awesome. If her worker pattern is anything like that drone pattern I wouldn't care what size she is, she's a keeper. I'm not familiar with your area, but if your flow is still going on I'd probably add another box.
    Matt
    I really wish I hadn't picked NUBE as my username. Seemed appropriate at the time.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,437

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    Empty queen cups are normal in a hive, when they got a larva in them, then u got something to worry about.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    To be sure of a course of action - just in case they get larva in them. What do you do at that point. Split? Let it happen?

    These are first year Carniolians. The first and second boxes are stuffed full. Superb laying pattern for the workers too, not just the drones shown.

    We are just into our major blackberry flow. ...I did put the 4th 8frame medium on. I'm hoping they draw and store honey in the fourth - but I suppose it is up to them what they stuff the 4th with. I don't know how to bait the fourth as they don't have any frames with capped honey only ..and as far as I can see, only one or two partial uncapped frames of only honey ...lots of other frames of brood and syrup/nectar/honey

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cary, NC USA
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    If you did happen to see larva in a queen cup, I would definitely split. The hive is strong enough to take it and if they were allowed to swarm you would probably lose that queen, unless you happened to recapture the swarm. If your flow is good I wouldn't even worry about baiting that top box. They'll use it when they need it.
    Matt
    I really wish I hadn't picked NUBE as my username. Seemed appropriate at the time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    Well that queen and a few thousand of her minions swarmed. Hindsight, I should have stopped it. Maybe.

    I mentioned what happened here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...gh-loose-swarm

    She was a beautiful, fantastic laying queen. I will miss her.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    3,528

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    So in an effort to get foundationless comb drawn, you did not put a needed box on, you lost a fine queen and a honey crop----now tell me again the advantage of this foundationless thing? Unless it is a religion, you need some foundation in your life until you get more frames drawn.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: 4th box, a supercedure cell and a queen ...I got a question...

    Actually I did put a needed 4th box on then the 3rd box was only 50% drawn and used (the hive as a whole was 83% used).

    Although in some sense, I wonder if you are correct about the use of foundation-less. If I used foundation, the queen could at least have started laying in that 3rd box instead of having to wait.

    I think though my fault lie with that and:

    I didn't inspect the first 2 deeps. If I did, I should have caught the swarm cell on the wall of the hive, and I would have caught the backfilling in the first box and could have taken corrective action.

    I think I fed too long. I had already taken off the syrup at that point (a week before) but it might still have been too long.

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