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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jeannette, PA, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Trap out swarm????

    Hey guys. We started doing this trap out last Monday. We initially had just the box and funnel. We went back Friday and added a frame of brood. At this point they were still bunched outside of the screen and not using the box. We went back today and some bees are using the box, but also appears that there is a large swarm on the upper part of the tree. Do you think these are different bees or did the whole colony come out of the tree?

    Last Monday
    image.jpg

    Today (one week later with what looks to be swarm)
    image.jpg
    Last edited by Blackbantam; 06-24-2013 at 10:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Casey, Il, USA
    Posts
    942

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    Looks like the queen may have come out

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jeannette, PA, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    What do you think the odds of them going into the five frame nuc? Are they too big? I'm wondering if I should just go vacuum them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kingsville, OH
    Posts
    959

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    1) The nuc and cone should be closer.
    2) yes if you can reach them vacuum them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Big Stone Gap, VA
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbantam View Post
    Hey guys. We started doing this trap out last Monday. We initially had just the box and funnel. We went back Friday and added a frame of brood. At this point they were still bunched outside of the screen and not using the box. We went back today and some bees are using the box, but also appears that there is a large swarm on the upper part of the tree. Do you think these are different bees or did the whole colony come out of the tree?
    Tough call,

    I would not be surprised if it was a swarm. If the parent colony did come out of the tree, and the nurse bees are very reluctant to leave brood/eggs, there would be a lot more bees congregated around the old entrance hole. Hopefully Cleo Hogan will chime in. He does a lot of trapouts.

    FWIW, when I do a trapout, I try to terminate my cone in the new box.

    Shane

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jeannette, PA, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    We went back to vacuum the bees around 3 pm and the large group of bees were gone. We were hoping that they were in the nuc box... But they were not

    Some bees are using the nuc just not all. There was also no queen cells. We only put the brood in Friday though, so I'm not sure how long this takes to happen. Anyways we moved the box closer as was suggested.

    image.jpg

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    625

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    Landing board should be touching the base of the cone, you had them too far apart.

    Yes, they the swarm is from your trap-out. The queen did come out.

    No, the swarm won't move into your nuc on their own, or they would have already.

    I would try to catch them with a different nuc or hive setup, they have already rejected the first. Position the nuc or hive so the landing board is touching tree trunk an inch or two below the swarm. Add a couple of drops of lemon grass oil, start scooping handfuls of bees into the open hive top and on the landing board. Once you see the girls starting to "fan" close the top. Add a couple more handfuls to the landing board. They should all start marching in. If they don't keep scooping bees to the landing board till they do. I like to use light cardboard for a flexible scoop. Not imperative, but if you see the queen, cage her and put her in the hive.

    Not dilly dally.

    Good luck. ....Don

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,736

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    I would say the swarm is from the feral colony. The queen came out, could not get back in, the brood in the trap was not hers, so, she took the bees she had, and left.

    That is the reason I like the trap sealed to the feral source. Make it an integral part of the colony. If the queen comes into the trap and does not find another queen, she will stay and lay eggs in the trap. She comes into the trap looking for another queen, but, she is not exiting her colony, just moving from one chamber to another. When she doesn't find another queen, she is still the queen of this colony.

    In the cone funnel method, and the cone just being near the trap, the trap is a foreign colony, with foreign brood, and she has no reason to enter it, or to stay, unless she can't find anything any better. But, there is a danger to her in entering a foreign colony that has brood in it.

    Since she can't get back into the feral nest, she leaves with what bees she can gather. There is a good chance that the feral source still has a lot of bees, and her leaving is much the same as a swarm. Nurse bees, housekeepers, fanners, likely in good numbers, are still in the feral source, tending brood, cooling the hive, etc.,.

    I like the cone funnel method if you want to totally eliminate a colony, but I like my method for drawing out the proper mix of bees for multiple starts in a single year, (and for years to come) and at least a good chance of getting the queen if you want her. In the cone funnel method you get what comes out. Normally that is field bees first, followed by others as they exit for cleansing flights or rest, but, there is no order of the bees to be the mix you need for a start. In my method, the first bees you get are guard bees, because the entrance is the trap entrance. Then you get cleaners, as they come into the trap to clean the trap and frames within their colony. Then when you introduce the unsealed brood, you get nurse bees and housekeepers, fanners, to tend the brood. At this point you have the right mix of bees to start a colony. Most often the queen will come into the trap to investigate where those eggs came from. If you just want to take starts, put her back in the tunnel and move the other bees. This is what I normally do. There is always a danger in keeping the queen, and killing the feral source. Unless the feral source has uncapped brood, (and the age here depends on the latest eggs layed, and how long she has been in the trap), they may not be able to make themselves a queen, and the feral colony will perish.

    Hope this is helpful.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 06-24-2013 at 04:47 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,440

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jeannette, PA, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    Thanks for all of the help! I have another trapout coming up that I will try your method. Do you have any more information on your style? I did I search and read everythingi could find, but I just want to make sure I am as prepared as possible.

    Thanks

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,736

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    blackbantam...e-mail me cchoganjr@scrtc.com I can't attach the trapout guide and photos to this forum. I will send to you PDF file

    cchoganjr

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jeannette, PA, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Trap out swarm????

    Thanks

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