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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    2,901

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    That being said, if Rhonda would take an uncapped frame w/ the bottom bar facing her and an end bar in each hand and try to shake the contents out of the frame, she will probably find her shoes or the floor are still dry. If not, if nectar rains out, then it is nectar and should go back on the hive(s).
    If you're doing the shake test, do it over top of the open hive so that if the nectar rains out it doesn't go to waste, you do realize how much work it took those bees to gather that nectar don't you?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,277

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Yes, of course. I was imagining she had the combs in the Honey House, not in the field, when I described shaking the combs.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    51

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Guess i won't wait for Santa, I'll check Ebay tonite. I did enter the Medina fair last year too, but I entered it in the wrong color class and lost 20 pts. I did lose a point for a level of 16.2% though. Live and learn

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,277

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    In all honesty, if you are serious about bees and only have a few hives now but plan to get even a couple more, why not own a refractometer. They come in a wide range of prices for sure, but the one I own I got off ebay for about $30 I think and it is accurate as can be. Not much money, but money well spent so you know what your moisture content is, that way you can extract uncapped honey someday like me.
    Been at this since 1976 and have never owned a refractometer. Owning one is a good idea though.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,277

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    we area small custom honey operation not large honey producers, honey must be below 18.5% to be truly considered honey. I have extracted honey with moisture levels as low as 14%. although their may be uncapped honey with moisture levels below 18.5% it is imposable to determine what open cells contain honey below 18.5% and what cells contain a product call it what you will. above 18.5% by extracting 5 gallons of honey with a moisture rating of 14% 10 pounds of honey would contain 1.4 pounds of water where as 10 pounds of 18.5% honey would contain 1.85 pounds of water, that would mean that one could add 41.39 ounces of tap water to a 5 gallon bucket of honey containing 14% moisture. and still be below the 18.5% mark.

    Now I am not saying that allowing the water portion of nectar or uncapped honey to increase the overall moisture content of honey is wrong. or even bad. what I am saying is we do not do it. like Jessie James who Specializes in CUSTON motorcycles, or Jack Daniels who specializes in 11 year old whiskey. We specialize in extra fancy all natural capped Honey. We can tell the difference and so can our customers. The rich color, extra thick body and aromatic fragrance stand out. It does not make you, or us right or wrong. Just different.
    If you are selling honey w/ a moisture content below 16.5% is it still honey, anymore than 18.75% moisture honey isn't? I have always been under the impression that honey has to have a moisture content between 16.5% and 18.5%. Have I been wrong all these many years?

    If 14% moisture honey is honey, low moisture honey, why isn't 18.75% moisture honey honey also? High moisture honey. I know it won't be stable very long, but mixed w/ the 14% in equal parts, won't that even out the two products to 16.75% moisture content? Well inside the perameters?

    Do you get a correspondingly higher price for your custom honey?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,277

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda514 View Post
    Guess i won't wait for Santa, I'll check Ebay tonite. I did enter the Medina fair last year too, but I entered it in the wrong color class and lost 20 pts. I did lose a point for a level of 16.2% though. Live and learn
    Below standard moisture content, right? Did Jim Thompson do the Judging at the Medina Fair? Do you know him? If you do, would you tell him I said Hi? I loved all the different hives he had in his home yard.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,901

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Tenbears, I understand you take great pride in offering your customers the best honey nature can provide, and your customers are educated to know the difference. I am commited to a pure quality product for my customers also, and educate them the best I can if I have the opportunity. But honestly, I don't think your customers or my customers would be able to tell the difference between my honey and your honey in a comparison. We just both believe that our honey is the best, and that's the way it should be.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    Tenbears, I understand you take great pride in offering your customers the best honey nature can provide, and your customers are educated to know the difference. I am commited to a pure quality product for my customers also, and educate them the best I can if I have the opportunity. But honestly, I don't think your customers or my customers would be able to tell the difference between my honey and your honey in a comparison. We just both believe that our honey is the best, and that's the way it should be.
    Exactly! to believe you are not producing the best quality product, and to continue to do so would be selling yourself short.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If you are selling honey w/ a moisture content below 16.5% is it still honey, anymore than 18.75% moisture honey isn't? I have always been under the impression that honey has to have a moisture content between 16.5% and 18.5%. Have I been wrong all these many years?

    If 14% moisture honey is honey, low moisture honey, why isn't 18.75% moisture honey honey also? High moisture honey. I know it won't be stable very long, but mixed w/ the 14% in equal parts, won't that even out the two products to 16.75% moisture content? Well inside the perameters?

    Do you get a correspondingly higher price for your custom honey?
    yes we do/ a 12 oz. bottle of our honey sells for $18.50 and a 1 pound sells for $20.00 we generally sell out within a few weeks of bottling

    Yes, blending a lower moisture honey with a higher moisture honey will certainly balance the content. I never said we did not blend honey. in fact you can take honey of any moisture place it in an unsealed container in a room with a constant temperature of 80.6 degrees Fahrenheit and a relative humidity of 59% and it will eventually reach 17.8% moisture. However, honey with a higher moisture content has a significantly higher chance of fermenting than that of honey below that threshold. and honey at 17.8 although possible for it to ferment. it is highly unlikely.
    to determine how long it will take to reach the 17.8 % one can take the surface area times depth divided by 3 times 1/2 the driving force times 1.5 Basically the greater the surface area and shallower the depth the faster the moisture will be removed. By the same token honey containing 17.8% moisture stored in unsealed containers at lower temperatures and, or greater relative humidity will increase in moisture content.
    Capped honey is most commonly found within the hive at between 16.5% and 18.5% however at times it can be lower. The 18.5% is considered to be the magic number at which point fermentation is unlikely to occur. as the bees tent to cap the honey once it gets about 18.5% moisture. I use the capped honey as my indicator. We advertise that we do not package uncapped honey. or honey the brood comb. nor do we extract for sale honey that was produced while syrup feeders are in use. We stand behind our product. and are true to our word.
    So you can expect me to forever and all time recommend that those who want to produce top quality honey extract only capped honey. Like the add says, we will sell no wine before it's time. Or honey! at least not to retail. It then becomes their choice how and what they do.
    Last edited by Tenbears; 06-25-2013 at 08:05 AM.

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