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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default Extraction advice

    I have about 12 frames to extract, completely full, then I have another 6 or so that are almost full. Could I cut out the parts that haven't been sealed yet? And still have the right moisture content, I hope to enter it in the Cuyahoga Fair. I won first place last year ( beginers luck). Thanks for your help Rhonda

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Mix the fully capped and not fully capped frames into the same extractor and your honey should be of a fine moisture content. My general rule is that if 75% (more or less) of all of the combs on average are capped then the moisture content will be fine.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  3. #3
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    I agree with you Mark, but she's entering her honey in competition.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Why not extract the capped fames first, then the partially capped frames. Keep the batches separate, and enter the honey from the capped frames into the competition?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    I agree with you Mark, but she's entering her honey in competition.....
    How does extracting all the honey together or seperating capped from partially uncapped effect the quality of the end product and its entrance into competition? I have never entered honey into competition that I recall.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  6. #6
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Why not extract the capped fames first, then the partially capped frames. Keep the batches separate, and enter the honey from the capped frames into the competition?
    What's the diff. Other than the presence or absence of caps?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    if you really want fancy top notch honey, place the partially full frames in the extractor first. Do Not remove the caps. extract the uncapped nectar. drain the extractor, you can feed the nectar back to the bees. then extract the honey. this is how we do it all the time. we never have to evaporate stock, and feel it is that little extra that sets us apart. Good luck at the fair. let us know how it goes.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    How does extracting all the honey together or seperating capped from partially uncapped effect the quality of the end product and its entrance into competition?
    Does not affect the quality at all in MHO, however the judges look for moisture content. Basically, the lower the better...
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox OA Vaporizer,
    "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  9. #9
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    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    I agree with Mark, just because the honey is uncapped doesn't mean that it isn't competition quality honey. I know there are a few people out there who think that uncapped honey, I mean nectar, is not fully ripened and is only worth feeding back to the bees. I guess I should have fed 80% of my honey crop last year back to the bees then because I harvested it with only about 20% capped. Why? Well because it was so dry a year that the honey came in at about 14%-16% moisture uncapped. Why wait till its all capped? That honey was competition grade honey even though I didn't enter it. John

  10. #10
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    You're right JMGI, but she (apparently) has no way of testing the uncapped honey for moisture content. However she is entering honey into a competition .... so why not error on what is known?

    Just my 2 cents...
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox OA Vaporizer,
    "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    I think I'll just extract the fully sealed frames and use that for the fair. I've always waited to everything was completly capped before extracting. Mark you said that as long a 75% is sealed you extract them, is that common practice or do others have other thoughts. I have at least a dozen more frames I left in the hives, thinking crap I have to do this again in another week, and some those are at least 75% or more capped. Thanks for the quick replies. Rhonda

  12. #12
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    I agree with you doing the fully sealed frames for the fair & doing all the others together when they are 75% capped or more. That's what I do. Now if you had a moisture reader, the uncapped nectar/honey might show the same % of moisture as the capped ones. But you don't know that now and as you're entering the fair..... error on the safe side...
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox OA Vaporizer,
    "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Extraction advice

    I think I know what I'll be asking Santa for this year. Any recommendations for a refractameter? Now I have to pull all those other frames, It'll be nice to get it done all at once.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Does not affect the quality at all in MHO, however the judges look for moisture content. Basically, the lower the better...
    So, 16.5 gets you more points than 17? Is that right? Wonder why?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  15. #15
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    if you really want fancy top notch honey, place the partially full frames in the extractor first. Do Not remove the caps. extract the uncapped nectar. drain the extractor, you can feed the nectar back to the bees. then extract the honey. this is how we do it all the time. we never have to evaporate stock, and feel it is that little extra that sets us apart. Good luck at the fair. let us know how it goes.
    I don't see why you assume that if what is in the cells isn't capped that then it is nectar and not honey. Maybe I have too many hives.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    You're right JMGI, but she (apparently) has no way of testing the uncapped honey for moisture content. However she is entering honey into a competition .... so why not error on what is known?

    Just my 2 cents...
    I see your point snl. Better safe than sorry. Not a bad policy. That being said, if Rhonda would take an uncapped frame w/ the bottom bar facing her and an end bar in each hand and try to shake the contents out of the frame, she will probably find her shoes or the floor are still dry. If not, if nectar rains out, then it is nectar and should go back on the hive(s).
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  17. #17
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda514 View Post
    I think I'll just extract the fully sealed frames and use that for the fair. I've always waited to everything was completly capped before extracting. Mark you said that as long a 75% is sealed you extract them, is that common practice or do others have other thoughts. I have at least a dozen more frames I left in the hives, thinking crap I have to do this again in another week, and some those are at least 75% or more capped. Thanks for the quick replies. Rhonda
    Standard industry practice as far as I know. Leastwise amongst the folks I actually work with or have worked with.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Knox, Pa. USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    So, 16.5 gets you more points than 17? Is that right? Wonder why?
    Moisture content is only a portion of the score, and NO 16.5% does not necessarily receive a higher score than 17% However honey with moisture above 18.5 % will receive a deduction. Clarity, Color, Aroma, and flavor all play a role in the judging. I must also point out, this is a county fair. not to take anything away from Rhonda, but some of the judges have little experience with honey, the mayor of Cleveland, radio personalities for example. there have in the past been Notable chefs, and wine makes known for having a refined pallet. How do I know. As me on August 12th and I will tell you.

  19. #19
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    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    In all honesty, if you are serious about bees and only have a few hives now but plan to get even a couple more, why not own a refractometer. They come in a wide range of prices for sure, but the one I own I got off ebay for about $30 I think and it is accurate as can be. Not much money, but money well spent so you know what your moisture content is, that way you can extract uncapped honey someday like me.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Knox, Pa. USA
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    Default Re: Extraction advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I don't see why you assume that if what is in the cells isn't capped that then it is nectar and not honey. Maybe I have too many hives.
    we area small custom honey operation not large honey producers, honey must be below 18.5% to be truly considered honey. I have extracted honey with moisture levels as low as 14%. although their may be uncapped honey with moisture levels below 18.5% it is imposable to determine what open cells contain honey below 18.5% and what cells contain a product call it what you will. above 18.5% by extracting 5 gallons of honey with a moisture rating of 14% 10 pounds of honey would contain 1.4 pounds of water where as 10 pounds of 18.5% honey would contain 1.85 pounds of water, that would mean that one could add 41.39 ounces of tap water to a 5 gallon bucket of honey containing 14% moisture. and still be below the 18.5% mark.

    Now I am not saying that allowing the water portion of nectar or uncapped honey to increase the overall moisture content of honey is wrong. or even bad. what I am saying is we do not do it. like Jessie James who Specializes in CUSTON motorcycles, or Jack Daniels who specializes in 11 year old whiskey. We specialize in extra fancy all natural capped Honey. We can tell the difference and so can our customers. The rich color, extra thick body and aromatic fragrance stand out. It does not make you, or us right or wrong. Just different.

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