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  1. #1
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    Default Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    I'm wondering if having several swarm traps of the same construction/composition is likely to make it more difficult for the bees to choose one. Do you think that several swarm traps in one area can actually delay swarms in settling on a nest site?

    Is it better to have only one in a given area?

    Adam

  2. #2
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    May 2011
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Try this, I know you will think I am crazy but give it try. Take two metal cloths hangers and straighten them and make handles out of one end of each. hold them out in front of you and walk around your area you have your swarm traps? If the rods cross each other mark that spot. Is it near your bait boxes?? If not move the bait box and see what happens.

    I did this and found out my yard (and where I have caught 4 swarms so far this year) is sitting right on a line that the rods crossed.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Just make sure all your bait hives have good chee, (also, sometimes translated as "qi" or "chi") and it won't matter where you put your bait hives. They will all become occupied.

    cchoganjr

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Franklin View Post
    Try this, I know you will think I am crazy but give it try. Take two metal cloths hangers and straighten them and make handles out of one end of each. hold them out in front of you and walk around your area you have your swarm traps? If the rods cross each other mark that spot. Is it near your bait boxes?? If not move the bait box and see what happens.

    I did this and found out my yard (and where I have caught 4 swarms so far this year) is sitting right on a line that the rods crossed.
    And if you dig there you will find water .......OR maybe a sewer line lol

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    nope not either one, I set up on top of a hill. Water is hard to find.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley Craig View Post
    And if you dig there you will find water .......OR maybe a sewer line lol
    The controlled experiments on Ley Lines/Water Witching, indicate you will find nothing, with consistency, that is anything other than chance.

    http://www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html


    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 06-22-2013 at 05:41 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Based on my reading and understanding of Tom Seeleys work, yes. The Bees check out and "vote" on all the prospective new homes. It takes time. If the bait boxes all have the same chi, it can/may make reaching consensus a little more time consuming. He discussed one swarm where this happened and the swarm was delayed in leaving. When if finally did, it spit in mid air. Apparently, there was a split decision JMHO, if you are interested in swarm dynamics, his book "Honey Bee Democracy" is a good read. I've enjoyed it so far and lots of good info.
    Rick

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    How would you explain that 4 swarms settled in the same tree in the same spot over a two month period of time? Two of which I might explain myself came close enough together that odor from the first may have been an attractant. but not the other two.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    The controlled experiments on Ley Lines/Water Witching, indicate you will find nothing, with consistency, that is anything other than chance.

    http://www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html


    cchoganjr
    I could say the same thing about people using electromagnetic locators as well

  10. #10
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    Jacksonville, Morgan County, IL
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    "The Bees check out and "vote" on all the prospective new homes. It takes time"

    especially if lawyer bees and judge bees get involved

    and heaven forbid any stuffed boxes or hanging chads

  11. #11
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    Jun 2013
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    San Antonio, Texas, USA
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    I must say Ben YOUR post is beewitching!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    How would you explain that 4 swarms settled in the same tree in the same spot over a two month period of time?...
    Not to discount any theories, but it could just be that that oak tree appeals to a honeybee sensitivity. There are likely many things we don't understand about the way the perceive the world, and that tree could simply fit a number of criteria for places they like to settle.

    Could be ley lines... Could be any number of other issues. I guess the point is, that none of us has sufficient understanding to say with any degree of certainty.

    Still too much we don't know.

    Adam

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    The same factors that made the tree a good place for the first two, was still a good place for the next two.

    Rodney Pullen, Park City only has 2 hives, but I caught 5 swarms within 15 yards, within 2 weeks. (Both of his hives were still extremely strong which strongly indicates that not all 5 came from his two hives.) Three on the same steel post, two on the same ornamental cherry tree. If ley lines, good chi (qi, chi) etc. was at work they would have all 5 gone to the same steel post or cherry tree.

    I learned years ago to not try to explain what bees do. Just let them do it, they have a mind of their owns.

    cchoganjr

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley Craig View Post
    I could say the same thing about people using electromagnetic locators as well
    Harley Craig... And you could very possibly be correct.

    cchoganjr

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Or both locations you found repeated swarms at have the unknown element. I don't agree that there has to be only one location in order for it to be evidence that bees favor specific locations. Shoppers tend to favor parking spots in close proximity to the door. Every parking lot has several spaces that fit that description.

    As for the issue of voting. I have heard it is more like many scouts are exploring for locations and they return to the swarm to report their findings. the more scouts that return reporting on the same location gives greater weight to that being the location that is selected. Unlike what I have heard about absconding where the bees seem to have already selected their new location before they even leave the hive.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post

    As for the issue of voting. I have heard it is more like many scouts are exploring for locations and they return to the swarm to report their findings. the more scouts that return reporting on the same location gives greater weight to that being the location that is selected.
    This is correct but there is an element of recruiting involved amongst the scouts. The length of time the dance and enthusiasm with which it is done. All scouts will visit other locations and eventually get "converted" and recruit for that location till all "agree". The absconding is interesting. Never thought of that in terms of swarming. When hives abscond, do they cluster up and leave or leave from the hive to a pre determined new home? I'm asking because I do not know
    Rick

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Harley Craig... And you could very possibly be correct.

    cchoganjr

    I manage about 20 guys and we have 65 guys in my dept at work, that all run locators...............I'm also a train people on how to use them. Sometimes there is alot more art than science behind it, probably the same for witching too, but the likelyhood of an accurate locate with electronic means is deffantly higher. I avg about 85% accuracy with coat hangers on plugged field tiles that can't be located anyother way, and probably 99.98% with an electronic locator.


    ok now back on topic: That tree is possibly a known navigational landmark for several hives in the area. I can'r remember where I read that bees sometimes use these landmarks as congrigation area.

  18. #18
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    Jan 2013
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    Springhill, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Foster Collins View Post
    I'm wondering if having several swarm traps of the same construction/composition is likely to make it more difficult for the bees to choose one. Do you think that several swarm traps in one area can actually delay swarms in settling on a nest site?

    Is it better to have only one in a given area?

    Adam

    This kind of answers this post is getting is always good for a few good natured chuckles. I previously read the thread referrenced by some members about Ley Lines and researched the subject.

    If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got. Maybe its the same for honey bee swarms, too.

    This Summer I witnessed a hive swarm and I followed it to a tree where it stayed for a week. I had some lure boxes at that location already, so I put some more lures out, within sight of the others, just for good measure. I experimented with several different configurations of lure boxes. I camcorded the bees interest in each of the lure boxes and posted the whole boring week in a series of youtube videos under the name southernexposure123.

    Long story short? If its not too late to make the story short, each box got scouted in different numbers on different days and even in different intensity throughout the same day. A few times I believed the bees were aboout to abandon my lures in favor of some unseen (by me) cavity they thought was a better choice. But in the end the one box which got the most interest throughout the week and during the height of the number of scouts on each day was the box the hive finally accepted. Each box was scented with LGO in as nearly identical amounts as could be managed.

    I know that doesn't answer your question the way you asked it. It only asks the same question in a different way. Really it only makes me ask more questions. Like - - if there had been only one box in that area, and if that box was one of those which drew a lesser number of scouts throughout the week would the swarm have adopted it instead of the more popular box or would that swarm have adopted a hollow tree elsewhere?

    But then, what if we didn't ask, "What if?"

    bnt
    Let's turn it around
    America Bless God

  19. #19
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    Jan 2011
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    Downingtown, PA
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    Default Re: Several Swarm Traps - Same Area - Deadlock?

    Several boxes may result in several captures too. This spring I setup 7 swarm traps on one property, spread over about 40 acres. I ended up catching 6 swarms on that property.

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