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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    In other words: "Yes Ma'am, we know you were sexually assaulted, but, why were you in a bar in a seedy part of town late at night dressed in skimpy clothes? What did you expect to happen?"

    Blaming the victim doesn't cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I don't know Jim, nor do I know any details of his operation or problems.

    Imagine you are a banker, and a beekeeper says, "my bees have been killed by pesticide exposure that I didn't cause, and I have no way to measure. Can I borrow some $$$ to purchase some more bees and keep them in the same places that had so much pesticides that it just killed the bees that I had? Oh look...those darn pesticides....my bees died again."
    ...don't you have questions like:
    "If the locations you had your bees in had enough pesticides to kill your bees, why did you think placing the newly purchased bees in the same place would succeed?"

    "What did you do to protect MY investment in YOUR bees after you became aware that there was enough pesticides in THEIR environment to kill them?"

    "Why didn't you expect these newly purchased bees to end up with the same lethal pesticide exposure as your dead bees? Why didn't you protect my investment?"

    deknow

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
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    323

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    I don't think it's a waste of time at all. We need to understand how and why these things keep happening so we can take steps to make sure they don't happen again. If we know their is a "pesticide problem" shouldn't something be done about it?


    Quote Originally Posted by beeman2009 View Post
    You know, after reading these post, several things become clear; losses of this kind are tragic regardless of the cause, there is definitely a pesticide problem & everyone will always have their opinions on every matter. I'm not saying that's wrong, but isn't analyzing this beeks problems NOW, after the fact, a waste of time? Just my thoughts which I am positive some of you will take issue with.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    240

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    BigDawg,

    Agreed! We do need to understand these types of problems. As to the pesticide problem, All the beekeepers in the world don't have enough money to " out bid " the chemical giants. Very , very sad, but very TRUE. I guess what I'm saying is, as usual, it all boils down to money. That's the real tragedy.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    905

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    I think, it is really nice approach, especially organic farm zoning. May be we should have "organic-bee zoning" as well? No Monsanto/Bayer 20-mile fly zone?
    +1 Sergey!
    I should have added 50% foundationless Phase-in after 2 years (more is Okay!)

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,830

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    The New York State Dept. of Environmental Conservation refused to do its job. Had they we would have some idea what may have killed Jim's bees. Or what didn't. Now we will never know.
    please explain how the DEC didn't do its job? Also needing explaining would be how come all the beeks that don't move there hives around the country are surviving just fine in N.Y.
    As a matter of fact it's getting harder and harder to get bee yards down here due to the # of beeks increasing there hive numbers. Something doesn't make sense to me, but then again many things confuse me lately.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,204

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Mike, according to Jim, he called the DEC to come out to see his dead or dying hives and to see if they would take samples and figure out what was killing them. I think that's their job. Supposedly, I wasn't there, so this is what I heard from Jim, they came the first time and, I believe, took samples. He talks about those samples in his interview. They didn't come out again and didn't test the samples.

    THis is all hearsay, as they say, and from the aggrieved party, so who knows how accurate this is. Maybe it's just another example of beekeeping being the stepchild of Agriculture, the biggest industry in NY State. And, maybe, DEC is swamped w/ work on other things, so Jim's case was low on the totem pole. They just hadn't gotten to it in a timely fashion. I don't know. You'll have to ask Jim. I imagine the Doans will still go to the State Meetings.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    "Beekeeping being the stepchild of Agriculture" - that's because of these antics. Where is the proof? Samples were taken and were inconclusive. Why is it only Mr. Doan with all these calamities in NY? You'd think he had a pesticide tanker truck following him from state to state.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,204

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_Bee View Post
    Why is it only Mr. Doan with all these calamities in NY?
    Not a new question. Asked it myself.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    It scares the mess out of me when people assume that something causes something without hard evidence to prove it. Usually it's emotionally driven "Monsanto is the devil" type rhetoric. That's what leads to legislation which is at best ineffective and at worst down right dangerous.

    Here's some research on neo-nics that probably hasn't gotten too much attention:

    "The previous research has been cited by scientists, environmentalists and policy-makers as evidence of the future impact of these pesticides on honeybees. It is likely that the research was instrumental in the French government's recent decision to ban the use of thiamethoxam, a neonicotinoid that is the active ingredient of Cruiser OSR, a pesticide produced by the Swiss company Syngenta.

    However, the new paper argues that the calculations made in the research were flawed because they failed to reflect the rate at which honeybee colonies recover from losing individuals."

    http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...f&e=771dfa6e48
    Try it. What could happen?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,204

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Well writ J.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Quite interesting that the article's author (Dr. James Cresswell from University of Exeter ) lists on his bio page that he is currently being funded by Syngenta, one of the world's largest producers of neonics.....

    http://biosciences.exeter.ac.uk/staf...l&tab=research

    Quote Originally Posted by JStinson View Post
    It scares the mess out of me when people assume that something causes something without hard evidence to prove it. Usually it's emotionally driven "Monsanto is the devil" type rhetoric. That's what leads to legislation which is at best ineffective and at worst down right dangerous.

    Here's some research on neo-nics that probably hasn't gotten too much attention:

    "The previous research has been cited by scientists, environmentalists and policy-makers as evidence of the future impact of these pesticides on honeybees. It is likely that the research was instrumental in the French government's recent decision to ban the use of thiamethoxam, a neonicotinoid that is the active ingredient of Cruiser OSR, a pesticide produced by the Swiss company Syngenta.

    However, the new paper argues that the calculations made in the research were flawed because they failed to reflect the rate at which honeybee colonies recover from losing individuals."

    http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...f&e=771dfa6e48

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    Quite interesting that the article's author (Dr. James Cresswell from University of Exeter ) lists on his bio page that he is currently being funded by Syngenta, one of the world's largest producers of neonics.....
    I can agree that there's a conflict of interest there. However, Dr. Cresswell says himself that pesticides can be harmful to bees:

    "I am definitely not saying that pesticides are harmless to honeybees, but I think everyone wants to make decisions based on sound evidence -- and our research shows that the effects of thiamethoxam are not as severe as first thought."

    The facts are not in on CCD. It's difficult for me to assume that neonics cause colony collapse when there are 20 posts a month on Beesource which say "hive just collapsed, can't figure out why." When in fact the beekeeper never did a mite check, never checked winter stores, let the bees freeze, let the hive get taken over by hive beetles (or wax moths), or set his bees where pesticide spraying was to take place.

    Nobody is saying that neonics are harmless to bees. The question to be answered is this: to what extent are neonics harmful to bees?

    I do not believe that neonics can be the magic bullet when there are so many other threats to bees.
    Try it. What could happen?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,204

    Default Re: 3rd Generation Beek Calls It Quits After Huge Losses He Attributes to Neonics and

    If anyone wondered what Jim will do now that he is a sideliner I see he will be in Medina,OH as part of Bee Cultures "Keepin' Em Alive and Gettin' Em There" Day.

    I thought it interesting that 3 of the 14 photos in the add featured semi load beehive spills.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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