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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    30

    Default New Queen Gone Wild??

    I recently found supercedure cells in one of my hives, so I took the opportunity to split a couple frames into a nuc. On June 6th, I saw that the queen had emerged from her cell, so I expected to find eggs sometime around today. I took a look today and though I couldn't find the queen, I did find eggs. I'm hoping that my new queen is just eager to lay and still hasn't worked out how to deposit only one egg per cell...

    photo (6).jpg

    Matt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    ummmmm, hopefully, but I'd really bet that's laying worker with that many eggs per cell, but it seems early for laying worker to develop too.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2012
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    ummmmm, hopefully, but I'd really bet that's laying worker with that many eggs per cell, but it seems early for laying worker to develop too.
    I've given some thought to that. I have another hive that I may donate a frame of brood from, but I've had trouble finding that one's queen, so I'm a little hesitant until I find her and ensure she isn't on the donated frame. Worst case, I can wait a week and see if these develop into drone cells or worker cells.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    unionville,mi, USA
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    59

    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    I wouldn't worry too much at this point. By the looks of the eggs they are at the bottom of the cell, laying workers tend to lay them on the sides. New queens will sometime be over zealous and lay a few eggs per cell. You are right to give it time, especially if you can't find the queen from the donor hive you were thinking about using. I would think if there are not too many bees in the hive it should be fairly easy to find the queen.
    Your inferiority complex is better than mine.

  5. #5
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    May 2012
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    I've never seen eggs on the sides of cells, even with laying worker. That looks like a laying worker egg pattern to me, I've heard of new queens laying 2-3 eggs per cell but that's not 2-3 eggs per cell. You will know in a week or so anyways, if that all becomes drone brood you got a problem.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2012
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    You were right on the money, JRG. I did a follow-up inspection yesterday. I didn't find any capped brood cells, but I did find more of the same. 3 whole frames with multiple eggs per cell. I'm not sure if this little split is worth messing with too much, but we added a couple frames of brood and nurse bees from our strongest hive. Each of those frames had eggs, uncapped, and capped brood. I'll try this for a couple weeks, but since the flow is coming to an end here, I think this may be a candidate to recombine. Sorry, no pictures this time since I was so disappointed in what I saw.

    Matt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Casey, Il, USA
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    1,018

    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Quote Originally Posted by B-Rant View Post
    You were right on the money, JRG. I did a follow-up inspection yesterday. I didn't find any capped brood cells, but I did find more of the same. 3 whole frames with multiple eggs per cell. I'm not sure if this little split is worth messing with too much, but we added a couple frames of brood and nurse bees from our strongest hive. Each of those frames had eggs, uncapped, and capped brood. I'll try this for a couple weeks, but since the flow is coming to an end here, I think this may be a candidate to recombine. Sorry, no pictures this time since I was so disappointed in what I saw.

    Matt

    as i understand it combining a laying worker hive with a queenright hive is a good way to get a qeen killed. I hear it it's better to shake them out about 50-100 ft in front of your hives and let them beg their way in. I am going through the same thing now on a trapout that failed to raise a qeen so I brought them back to the bee yard so I can work them easier and If they fail this time after 3 rounds of brood I plan to shake them out as well.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
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    30

    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Thanks. I just noticed the proliferation of "laying worker" threads on the board right now and saw that same advice on another thread. I have 3 other hives in this yard that can donate frames, so I'll try to limp this one along for a few weeks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lititz, PA, USA
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    708

    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Recent thing that I tried that (so far) seemed to work.

    Had what I suspected was a laying worker hive and kept giving it eggs/brood and they just refused to raise a queen. Population dwindled, definitely no queen. I had a queen I wanted to replace anyway so just as a stop-gap I thought I'd try to introduce her via cage and queen candy to this laying worker hive. They whacked her. I used her original hive as a cell builder at my first try at grafting. Got only a few grafts to take, which was fine, first try. I then went through the builder hive and realized that those bees had raised a whole pile of queen cells on the frames (duh) so queen rearing lesson learned there. Again, as a stop-gap for the laying worker hive, I decided to give it a frame with a couple ripe cells on it from the builder. Went in a couple days later and one was emerged, other torn down, and sure enough there's a virgin queen walking around on the frame. So in my case at least I was able to introduce a frame with a queen cell (and bees to I think at least protect it a bit) and have the other bees in the laying worker hive ignore it. I'm hoping the reaction is that the laying worker hive bees are simply acting as if they're replacing their queen and oh gee, there's the new one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Ok. The mystery continues. Last week, we moved two frames of brood from my strongest hive to this hive. Yesterday, when we inspected, we found capped worker brood on 4 frames. I also still found a few cells with multiple eggs per cell. So, we either have a laying queen that is very good at hiding in a 5 frame nuc, a laying worker that is somehow able to lay worker brood (I know, not possible), or the fertilized eggs were moved from 2 frames to the other 2? I didn't add new frames of open brood this week because everything looks good, so I'll check again in a few days.

    Matt

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Casey, Il, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Are you positive its worker brood and not small drones ? Bees do not move eggs got a pic?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    well, sounds like you maybe got a laying queen, keep us updated. I get to pull nucs since my strongest hive looks like they want to supercede or maybe swarm now.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Sure looks like laying workers... too many eggs in each cell... I don't get too suspicious of a few doubles and an occasional triple. But there are a lot more than that.

    http://bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

    I do not see a supersedure as an opportunity for a split. They are often already weak when they decide to supersede and the old queen is usually about to quit. Splitting a supersedure is likely to end up queenless...

    Now a lot of swarm cells in a booming hive, is an opportunity...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    I started the split on 6/2 with 2 frames of brood, 1 frame of nectar/honey, and 2 empty frames of foundation. Any brood on those frames should have emerged by now. On 6/25, I removed the partially drawn frames of foundation, and added 2 frames of open/capped brood. So, if I have a laying worker, I should have 2 frames of capped/emerging brood and 2 frames of drone brood. Here is what I found today:

    20130702_183745.jpg20130702_183525.jpg20130702_183345.jpg20130702_183014.jpg

    The first and third photos are the latest frames added and both have worker and drone brood. The second and fourth frames are the frames that were originally added to the split. They have some worker brood interspersed where possible on frames of mostly pollen storage. I didn't take a photo of the honey frame. I still can't find the queen, but I added another nuc on top to bring the frame count to 10 and give them some more room.

    I'll check again in a few days.

    Matt

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Another update. Checked again today. Still have capped/uncapped brood and eggs, but we now have a capped queen cell and several cups that look like they have open brood. Added a frame of mostly open brood again to try to suppress any laying workers and will check again in a few days.

    Matt

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Gone Wild??

    Yet another update. We added a frame of brood with a queen cell from another hive in early August. It looks like they finally let a queen emerge. It's pretty small, but will keep this hive viable until I can replace with a reared queen from my good hive. I don't see any eggs yet, so I'm guessing this is a virgin queen, which may get bigger once mated.

    20130818_130604.jpg

    I've heard that everything works if you let it...

    B

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