Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,974

    Default Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    When putting ripe cells in mating nucs...

    Do you have to (or should you) wait 24 hours? Or can you install them as soon as you make up the nuc?
    Do you have to keep ripe cells upright all the time? I swear I've seen guys with just a bunch of them in a cooler on a warm cloth...

    I'm supposed to be putting these cells in Wednesday...

    Thanks,

    Adam

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,271

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    I have always added the cell the same day the nucs were made. I usually make the nucs, then remove the bar of ripe cells from the starter/finisher colony and start putting them in. I try to keep cells upright, but if the cells are ready to emerge in 12 to 24 hours the queen's wings should not be damaged by laying the cell on it's side. I try not to jar the cells or allow them to cool.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,949

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    I put cells in as I make the nucs up. I've done it the other way and made them up the day before, but it's easier to just do everything at once for me. They don't get the chance to get any smart ideas of making their own queen this way.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,848

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Yep, put them in at the same time. You can use cell protectors to make sure they don't get torn down or even a roller cage, but then you have to release the virgin after she hatches, easier just to put the cell in. The last few I did, I made the nuc, took it with me to pick up the cells, put all the cells in it, brought them back, and distributed as needed. Cells emerged next day, queens were laying as of yesterday which was day 11 post emergence.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    All my nucs are five frame deeps, do you gents like a frame of brood and a frame of honey and pollen or do you like to start with more resources than that?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    During a program we were doing for beekeepers 2 weeks ago, we popped queen cells into 4 queenright colonies (one was a 5 frame nuc, 3 were 2 deep 10 frame boxes).

    A week later, we couldn't tell what became of the cell in the nuc...it was chewed back to the plastic. Could be because of the smaller space inside the box.

    2 of the cells had definitely emerged (hole in the bottom of the cell), and one had definitely been chewed out (big gapeing hole in the side, tip still intact).

    ...that's with a laying queen in the hive. No cell protector (just pushed the plastic cell cup into some comb half way between the center and sides of the top box).

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Deknow, isn't that what you would expect dropping a foreign queen cell into a queen right hive? I have a lot to understand yet but it only seems normal that those cells would be destroyed. What am I missing?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steves1967 View Post
    Deknow, isn't that what you would expect dropping a foreign queen cell into a queen right hive? I have a lot to understand yet but it only seems normal that those cells would be destroyed. What am I missing?
    ...that half of the cells had the queens emerge normally for sure.

    One cell (in the nuc) was chewed back to the cup so I don't know if the queen emerged or not. The forth one was definitely chewed out by the bees.

    None of this was under ideal circumstances...a public event, opening hives, transporting almost ripe cells in a nuc, etc.

    Cells are cheap to produce, and you should always have a backup round coming if you are counting on the queens...no matter how you introduce them. Bees are generally eager (or at least willing) to accept a cell or a virgin even if they are queenright.

    The point is that it probably isn't necessary to wait too long after removing the queen....even when the queen is present you have a good shot.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,384

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    If the conditions are right, installing queen cells in queen-right colonies results in supercedure.

    Have you ever seen newly started queen cells in the honey supers, and when you search the rest of the hive thinking the colony is getting ready to swarm, you find not even one cell or queen cup with an egg? In such a case, I feel the colony is attempting to supersede. So, by placing ripe queen cells in the honey supers during a flow, you imitate what the bees do anyway.

    Bees make better beekeepers than beekeepers make bees. To be a better bee...

    Observe and Imitate.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    To be a better bee...
    Observe and Imitate.
    ...or to (mis)quote Ty Webb..."Be the bee."

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,372

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    I prefer to wait a day for a couple of reasons. I want to encourage some cell development in that first 24 hours as insurance in case the virgin dosent hatch or is killed. Secondly it isn't unusual for a nuc to lose a lot of bees to nearby queenright hives. this gives you the opportunity to add bees or switch hives as needed to insure their bee numbers are adequate.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,384

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Secondly it isn't unusual for a nuc to lose a lot of bees to nearby queenright hives. this gives you the opportunity to add bees or switch hives as needed to insure their bee numbers are adequate.
    Or even to a queen-right nuc where you took an old queen during makeup. Pretty obvious the next day if there are any nucs that have an old queen. They are the ones with a big beard.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Barboursville, VA, USA
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    I found the queen cell torn open near the top with the queen still in there, in a queenright colony. Does that indicate the queen got to the new one first....or the beekeeper (me!) did it? Maybe the cleaning crew hadn't gotten there yet?
    Thanks, Jim

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,127

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    "MY METHOD OF FORMING NUCLEI AND INSERTING QUEEN CELLS.

    "With the nucleus hives, a few spare combs, and provided with some long pins, I go to a hive, and without troubling to look for the queen-except merely to glance over the combs as I take them out-I insert the cells as quickly as possible. Instead of taking the time to fit them nicely, I give a hasty look at the cell, cut a hole in the comb I think will suit, put in the cell and fasten it there by running two pins through the base of it into the comb, one each way-sometimes one is sufficient. Advantage may be taken of a depression in the comb and so save cutting a hole. In this way I can insert the cells and form the nuclei in a very short time. If the queen should be seen during the operation, she is placed with the frame she is on to one side until all is finished, when she is put back into the hive after contracting it with division boards, if necessary. Should she not be seen it only means the loss of one queen cell, which is more than made up for by the time saved in not waiting to find her. I have often spent a considerable time looking for the queen in a strong colony and then perhaps had to give it up. Professor Cook recommends inserting the queen cells twenty-four hours after the nuclei are formed, but says: "We may do it sooner but always at the risk of having the cell destroyed." I very rarely find one destroyed, and I think the risk likely to be greater when time is allowed for the bees to commence building cells before giving them one. Occasionally it happens that a nucleus colony will not accept a queen cell even when it has been queenless for some little time. When this occurs a cell should be protected in a cage when placed in the hive until the queen emerges, when there is likely to be no further trouble. "--Isaac Hopkins, The Australasian Bee Manual, 1886, Chapter XI

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkins1886.htm#mymethod
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,372

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    We used to place cells on the same day but found acceptance was erratic and unpredictable. Rarely do we experience acceptance (as defined by successful mating) less than 80% since we began waiting for 36 hours. This past spring it was 86% in 2012 it was 84%.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,949

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Jim,

    Are you re-queening full sized hives with cells or are you putting cells in mating nucs when you get those acceptance rates? I do what you do with full sized hives, but with mating nucs I just put the cell in when I make up the nuc. I don't think that I have ever had them start their own cells except when the cell was not viable.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,372

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    Quote Originally Posted by beedeetee View Post
    Jim,

    Are you re-queening full sized hives with cells or are you putting cells in mating nucs when you get those acceptance rates? I do what you do with full sized hives, but with mating nucs I just put the cell in when I make up the nuc. I don't think that I have ever had them start their own cells except when the cell was not viable.
    Full sized deeps made up with 3 to 4 combs of brood and extra bee cover.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,531

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    i have my first round of cells that should be capped by tomorrow, and day 10 will be next wednesday.

    i was thinking about making up my queenless nucs this weekend, and then removing any emergency cells they make before placing my cells because i want to replace the genetics anyway. would making them hopelessly queenless increase acceptance?

    also, i'll only need 6 or 7 cells, but i'll have at least a dozen. i was thinking about caging the ones i don't use, letting them hatch in the finisher, and banking them for up to a week as insurance in case some of the cells i place don't make it.

    my other option is to place more than one cell in the nucs.

    any thoughts?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,127

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    >i was thinking about making up my queenless nucs this weekend, and then removing any emergency cells they make before placing my cells because i want to replace the genetics anyway. would making them hopelessly queenless increase acceptance?

    I don't think it will help at all. I would just make them queenless the night before, or even 2 hours before. A small nuc will know they are queenless in 2 hours.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,531

    Default Re: Introducting a Queen Cell - Do you have to wait?

    understood, many thanks michael.

    what would your approach be with any extra cells, i.e. double up on placing them vs. letting them hatch and banking the virgins?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads