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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    PatBeek.... If it works for you, don't change it. I had just always put the catch box much closer, and honestly, I never tried placing the catch box that far away, from the end of the screen cone funnel. I had always placed the end of the funnel right against the opening of the catch box.

    oddfrank is one of my idols, and to a degree he is correct. In the early stages of the screen cone funnel method what you get is field worker bees, however, the longer the trap stays, you begin to get other bees as they exit for cleansing flights. rest, etc.

    when I developed the so called Hogan Trapout Method, I had people tell me that all I would get is worker bees on their way to the fields, but, hundreds of trapouts later, by hundreds of beekeepers, we now know that isn't true. I rarely use the screen cone funnel method any more because I want the correct mix of bees to take a 3 to 6 pound start, very quickly (24 to 36 hours) and the screen cone method doesn't get that until late in the trapping sequence. Even then you are not sure of the mix that you have.

    cchoganjr

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,582

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    10600_199125260244362_257700332_n.jpg

    This pic was taken 10 minutes after placing the hive. Two days later 20-25k of bees were in the hive.

    1012995_206588512831370_1350511425_n.jpg

    This pic was taken 12 hours after the set up was complete. One day later, all the bees plus the queen was in the hive. To be fair, this was a swarm that took up residence one day before the trap out was installed.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    803

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    .

    DAY 2 UPDATE:

    I raised the height of my hive about a foot or foot-and-a-half.

    The bees seem to be taking more notice of the entrance and inside of my hive.

    Also, there are many more bees exiting the trap-cone.


    VIDEO:






  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    803

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    .

    I'm going to take a poll...................or should I make this a bet?

    Should I forget about buying a queen and just see for 'experiment's sake' if the queen eventually comes out?

    I just want to see if it can consistently be done, without even throwing brood/larvae/eggs in the hive.

    I (or they) successfully did it once before with a very similar trap-out as this one, but it could have been a rare fluke or beginner's luck.

    .

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kingsville, OH
    Posts
    959

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    I got a queen to come out through the cone, but I would not bank on it again. For one thing the trap out was from a swarm. I do know I got the queen, I say eggs with in a few days. Then when I check this week I saw her running around.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    I think you will get a lot of different answers, here is my .01 cents worth.

    If you leave the cone on long enough, (i'm talking 4 to 5 weeks) to allow all capped brood in the feral colony to emerge, and all the housekeepers and nursebees to have exited the feral colony through the cone and not able to get back in, I believe, in most cases she will come out, with the last of the stragglers that are in the colony, because they can no longer sustain themselves. One constraint here is, is the cone opening large enough for her to exit, but small enough to keep bees from returning to the feral colony.

    However, I also believe there will be times she will simply stay with the brood in the feral colony and perish. Queens can live for a long time with little or no assistance.

    In the screen cone funnel method, I do not see the benefit of placing brood in the trap hive other than to start a new colony, and to give the bees that have exited the feral source a job, while the trapout continues. There is not a lot of reason for the queen to exit her colony due to brood in an external box. If she does come out, I do not believe the brood in the external box would have anything to do with it.

    In the trapout method that I normally use, the trap box is an integral, sealed, portion of the colony, and the trap is just another chamber. The queen comes over because the foreign odor from the brood you put in the colony, indicates the presence of another queen, and she comes over to inspect, expecting to find another queen in her castle. In the screen cone funnel method the trap box is an external chamber. No reason for her to come out, go into a foreign box to inspect anything, other than a place to go if she is vacating her original colony.

    Both methods have their place, both will gets results, just in a different manner, and with different probabilities. To test any theory you must be able to replicate the results under the same or very nearly the same circumstances, and therein lies the problem. In the world of the honeybee, there are not similiar circumstances, even with colonies sitting side by side, in the same yard, on the same day, etc, etc,.. There are so many variables, not the least of which is the short lifespan of the bee, absence/presence of mites/SHB, size of colony,(# of bees) type and number of chambers to protect, etc, etc, The best we can hope for is to strive to duplicate as closely as possible, then take the results with a grain of salt, and NEVER use the words, ALWAYS OR NEVER, when talking about bees.

    cchoganjr.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBeek View Post
    .Should I forget about buying a queen and just see for 'experiment's sake' if the queen eventually comes out?.
    Patbeek.... I never buy a queen until the trapout is finished, and I determine if I have trapped the queen or not. There is not a lot of reason to buy one before finishing. The brood that you place in the trap will inhibit any worker bees from becomming laying workers. It is also quite likely that, if there is absence of queen activity in the trap, the bees will begin to build queen cells from the brood you gave them, (of course there has to be a viable egg for them to do this).

    I do not believe that placing a queen in an external box, would have any effect on her coming out and going into the trap box. If this were so, colonies placed on pallets, side by side, would have queens leaving their colony (boxes) and invading colonies, (boxes), adjacent to their own. But this is not normally observed in hives that are very close together.

    Wait until the trapout is finished, then decide if you need a queen. The brood you gave them will emerge, and give the trapped colony a boost of housekeepers, nurse bees, fanners, wax builders, etc., as other bees become field bees and die. This will sustain the colony until you decide if you need a queen or not.

    cchoganjr

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,582

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    May 30th I started a trap out of an old cedar tree that was slated to come down. I had checked on it last friday (about 15 days into the ordeal).
    There had to be 20k bees in the hive, building comb, storing nectar and pollen. These are the most gentle bees I have ever worked with. I figured there HAD to be a queen in there. Checked today, calm as all get out and idi not see the queen. 1 more week and they have to come home either way.

    10600_199125260244362_257700332_n.jpg

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    803

    Default Re: Gearing-up for a sweet trap-out

    .

    Just to be fair, I am giving an update on this trap-out, even though it didn't go 100% - ALTHOUGH THE CUSTOMER IS HAPPY !!!

    Basically, the bees all came out and absconded. None of them hung around my trap-out hive.

    It's true that I didn't have any comb placed inside with brood/eggs, so I realize I was taking a chance with the outcome from the get-go.

    However, the bees are all gone from the house. The lady is very satisfied and she paid me for the service I promised.

    Just no bees for me in this case.
    .

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