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  1. #201
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    A couple reasons:

    1) Gaucho has been used at a seed treatment on thousands of square miles worth of sunflowers here in the USA for many years without causing serious bee health problems.
    BigDawg's link provides balanced "story" with data analysis of honey production in France before and during Gaucho introduction. It has graphs and other materials illustrating the situation. It is very balanced presentation. From another hand, you stated that bees are doing great in US with Gaucho. You use it as an argument, but it is not. You need to provide DATA illustrating your statement. Ideally, it should be in similar format as document provided by BigDawg's. The whole country were involved and you dismiss all their hard work in a moment. Not nice and disrespectful to others hard work.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    2) BigDawg's link did not tell the whole story about the situation in France. This link does: http://www.fact-index.com/g/ga/gauch...ecticide_.html
    It states the same as BigDawg's document - I had read it carefully.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  2. #202
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    ...In Australia, neonicotinoid-based seed treatments are used widely but there have been no reports of significant declines in the health of bees....
    I am getting tired from this "argument". We had another thread on this matter at beesource and Australian beekeeper (the real one) presented the official letter from agricultural Ministry (not sure how it was called) stating that in Australia they have smaller apiaries and they do not keep bees near treated crops. Apparently, they keep bees in pristine places away from chemicals.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  3. #203
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    of course pesticides kill bees
    pesticides is only one component of the problem, take that away and our hives are still dying from the rest of the list of hive related problems
    by removing one pesticide from the market does not clear up the pesticide issue, another will take its place, you know, the ones that leave piles of dead bees infrount of your hives
    It is true, but it does not mean that we shall sit and do nothing. There are some examples how things changed positively in the environment. Also, some chemicals are more dangerous than others. Organic farming proves that it is possible to "produce" produce with minimal chemical treatment and it is getting more and more popular. At some point, people will establish no-chemical zone to grow their produce in peace. Than,they would need "organic" bees to pollinate their organic fields People could do a lot! For example, my wife's family owned 150 acres piece of land in Santa Rosa mountains, heavily developed area. They decided that this land will never be developed. The location of property is so that it prevents others from development (road). Technically, they are preventing 1000 acres from developing This is a perfect place for organic farm and my bees when I retired If people will act together - they won! I am sure, there are other wonderful places, which are chemicals-free.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  4. #204
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    a broad sweeping removal of neonic from the market place to take those "the so called problem makers" off the shelf will also take the other "less talked about" neonics seed treatments off the market resulting in all farmers loosing out on a very effective pest management tool. THEN they turn to aerial and ground broadcasting of more harmful pesticides blanketing the country side trying to salvage a crop every season.

    If there is one bad apple in the basket, lets try to target that bad apple and not throw the whole basket out.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #205
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    >>Organic farming proves that it is possible to "produce" produce with minimal chemical treatment and it is getting more and more popular. At some point, people will establish no-chemical zone to grow their produce in peace. Than,they would need "organic" bees to pollinate their organic fields <<

    Cerezha you must live in a different world than I do if you think organic farming is going to replace conventional farming. We shop in a city of about 60,000 people and there is a large chain grocery that has an organic produce section. Every time we go in I check out the number of people in each section. It is at least 10:1 non-organic over organic. We have a neighbor that farms around us that told me they would go completely organic except there is no one to sell to. He said no body wants the organic crops. The higher production costs for organic lead to higher crop prices that people do not want to pay. Vocal people like you make it sound great but the general public does not care about their health. If they did the market for refined foods, read junk food, would not exist. Do you really think that the pesticides organic farming uses do not kill bees and other beneficials? After all they are pesticides used to control insects.
    Dave

  6. #206
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    I am getting tired from this "argument". We had another thread on this matter at beesource and Australian beekeeper (the real one) presented the official letter from agricultural Ministry (not sure how it was called) stating that in Australia they have smaller apiaries and they do not keep bees near treated crops. Apparently, they keep bees in pristine places away from chemicals.
    Seriously? You believe that? Water is needed for nectar. Where there is water, there is agriculture. Where there is agriculture there are treated crops of some form. You can dream of "pristine" places at night if it helps you sleep but it's only where bigfoot and the chupacabras dance.

    Dismiss it all you want but the argument you are tired of still holds plenty of water.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  7. #207
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Maybe there are Billabong Beekeepers in Australia?

  8. #208
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    ... Cerezha you must live in a different world than I do if you think organic farming is going to replace conventional farming. ...
    Hi Dave, yes,I am from different world, from non-existing USSR actually In my country, we used to think, that we are in power and we could make changes if need. For instance, we stopped the entire power-boats operation on Oka-river because those particular boats damaged the ecology, they kill sturgeon eggs and erode the shore. When boats were stopped and perestroika helped (another polluter went out of business) - in 10 years sturgeon is back! River is pristine-clean! In California, people saved Mono-lake: 2 million toilets in LA were replaced on low-water ones and it saved the lake. I do not know about your area, but people in California are very concern regarding quality of their life. In our small city we have 3 or 4 farmers markets and they are full of people - you need to go earlier to get stuff, at noon they sold out. Literally,nobody is going to Albertsons/Vons/etc - everybody where? In "Whole foods" and "Trader Joes." In our city we actually have a problem - too many "Whole foods," they kick small business out. Thus, we do not shop in the "Whole foods." We support our small corner market! It's not only me - many schools have "learning gardens" where kids learn how to grow food without chemicals. In my wife's after school program, kids forbidden to even bring in any Cola or junk-food, instead, they have a healthy food (and pure water) donated by local business. This is for low-income kids. You need to see it: bankers on the bicycles go to work - we have in the downtown a special bike parking facility with lockers and shower. Ciclavia - once a month (we wanted more) we close one of the major LA street for cars and convert it into the bicycle path from Down-Town LA to the beech - literally, millions people attended. People grow their own vegetables... many good things are happening just right now and my point is that everyone should support these good tendencies.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  9. #209
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    Seriously? You believe that? Water is needed for nectar. Where there is water, there is agriculture. Where there is agriculture there are treated crops of some form. ..
    Are you from Australia? You know better than Australians? I would like to see a comments from people who is living in Australia. Also -could you explain, how we have so many bees in the desert? Mohave desert is full of bees in spring. I believe, Texas and New Mexico have plenty of bees in the deserty areas.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  10. #210
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Cerezha you living in California explains a lot! Only about 1% of agriculture is organic. Demand is what dictates what is produced. If there was as much demand as you think we would have a lot more than 1% of the land in agriculture. I have messed with organics for nearly 40 years. Yield and quality suffer tremendously. I can produce more for less money and effort with conventional agriculture.
    Dave

  11. #211
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    ... I can produce more for less money and effort with conventional agriculture...
    I understand, but it is changing ... right now. Not necessary in your area, but it is changing. My wife was in Switzerland last Summer - they disgusted with packaged milk and more than few hours old bread. They have cows everywhere. They used cows to "cut" grown grass For them, it is normal to have a good quality fresh food. They have a stationary huge bee-houses - they do not move bees to pollinate. See, it is different, but even in US demand for high-quality food is growing - I heard on NPR that "Whole Foods" is placed a store in the center of very poor community in Detroit. I heard interview with "Whole Food's" CEO - he said that they did very deep investigation of the market before deciding on that Denver location. They feel, it is way to go. I personally, do not support any superstores including the "Whole foods" (I love local corner stores and farmers markets), but it is a trend and winner in the market-economy would be who anticipate changes early enough to jump in.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  12. #212
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    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    >>Organic farming proves that it is possible to "produce" produce with minimal chemical treatment and it is getting more and more popular. At some point, people will establish no-chemical zone to grow their produce in peace. Than,they would need "organic" bees to pollinate their organic fields <<

    Cerezha you must live in a different world than I do if you think organic farming is going to replace conventional farming. We shop in a city of about 60,000 people and there is a large chain grocery that has an organic produce section. Every time we go in I check out the number of people in each section. It is at least 10:1 non-organic over organic. We have a neighbor that farms around us that told me they would go completely organic except there is no one to sell to. He said no body wants the organic crops. The higher production costs for organic lead to higher crop prices that people do not want to pay. Vocal people like you make it sound great but the general public does not care about their health. If they did the market for refined foods, read junk food, would not exist. Do you really think that the pesticides organic farming uses do not kill bees and other beneficials? After all they are pesticides used to control insects.
    Dave
    I believe you are incorrect about the status of organic farming.

    From this website: http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agric...re-basics.html

    Since 2002, growth in the organic food sector has boomed, far out-pacing the conventional food market.
    Also, the objective of the organic approach is not to substitute so-called "natural" pesticides for more lethal ones. The goal is to develop soil health to the point that plants growing in that soil are not seriously affected by pests and diseases. I've been an organic gardener for almost 50 years, and I've seen this myself, over and over. If the soil is good enough, bugs don't bother the plants enough that intervention is needed.

  13. #213
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    ... Only about 1% of agriculture is organic....
    I feel uneasy when people present such numbers to support their statements. 1% and what? Every year only may be 30 people have received a Nobel Prize. It is much, much less than 1% of entire population. But these 30 people did more than the rest of the planet in some way 99% to me just means that land is used inefficiently. I could give you many examples of unwise farmer land use in the Central Valley, California. Sustainable farming, which do not deplete soil and do not poison everything could be done on much smaller piece of land and still be effective. One of the problem with organic farming in US is that land is so contaminated with chemicals (including old DDT) that it may not be qualified for organic farming If I remember correctly, soil should not see chemicals for 10 years in order to be qualified - anybody could clarify this?
    Серёжа, Sergey

  14. #214
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Here we are again, back to discussing farming and no bees. Guess it's time to close another one.
    Regards, Barry

  15. #215
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    organic farming If I remember correctly, soil should not see chemicals for 10 years in order to be qualified - anybody could clarify this?
    In Canada, its 5 years to achieve that status, plus a whole list of maintenance issues, for example, removal of all treated fence posts
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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