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  1. #161
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    ...anytime I grow old corn seeds, by the third year it's pretty worthless.
    I find this video when searched the Internet:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sXEQxQRWJmM
    It is unrelated to the bees, sorry
    Серёжа, Sergey

  2. #162
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    It is great! You should continue doing so and than, may be you do not need Monsanto? T
    you completely missed the point
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #163
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    you completely missed the point
    Explain - I am not an agricultural expert and would be interested to learn.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    seed in our natural environment degrades quickly in time, thanks to our elements, weather, disease and handling. there are seeds that will survive through the generations but those are but a small % of the yearly production. Weed seeds will have nearly 90% of its seeds germinate or degrade within the first 5 years, and the other 10% will last from then til, well, as long as when your grandfather had worked the land.

    that was the point I was making to your comment about germination

    I understand your point your making with GM bees, but I would have a hard time comparing it to seed production. Seed production is such a controlled environment, and entirely measurable. How would anyone be able to track bees? or the offspring off those queens? or the gererations off those queens? Once sold to the beekeeper, the genetics would be part of the operation til that hive or operation died off.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #165
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Indeed, it is good idea for virus vaccine because virus changed constantly. It is nothing to do with GMOs.
    virei and pests adapt and mutate. GMO companies and vacine companies will have the same business model. Gear their products to solve the upcoming years potential epidemics.

  6. #166
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    ...I understand your point your making with GM bees, but I would have a hard time comparing it to seed production. ...
    See, I did not "invent" it - I just steal idea from Monsanto seeds agreement. It is totally my fantasy ... but with grain of salt. Salt is that Monsanto agreement for seeds may be used for any GMOs because it is about patented intellectual property. In seed-agreement, I believe, Monsanto does not specify what to do with extra seeds or pollen spread on neighbors fields. They just stated that seeds could not be re-used. That's it. The same way, they could state that bees could not be "re-used". Than, once you sign agreement with them, it would be your responsibility to solve the issue. Seeds were used as an example simply because we (thanks God) do not have many other GMOs. At least, I am not aware of them, you?
    Last edited by cerezha; 06-26-2013 at 03:07 AM. Reason: grammar
    Серёжа, Sergey

  7. #167
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    virei and pests adapt and mutate. GMO companies and vacine companies will have the same business model. Gear their products to solve the upcoming years potential epidemics.
    Interesting point. I do not think that GMOs may be "seasonal" as vaccone. Making GMOs is very difficult process. Also, If it is seeds (or bees) - once created, they need to be grow and multiplied. It takes time. The reason why Monsanto forbid reuse the GMOs is just profit issue - if everybody could grow and multiply GMOs, than Monsanto will lost the profit. Strict implementation the patent-agreements is Monsanto's business model. It is different from many other biotech-models including vaccine-production - once sold, vaccine may not be reproduced because the formulation is a secret. Vaccine also may not be easily multiplied by ordinary consumers of the product.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    No folks, it doesn't take a long time to make GM bees.

    Remebee was a jumping gene derived product that could ,theoretically, make instantly transgenic bees.

    It contained a known SINE. All that would be required is the corresponding LINE (with the correct retrotransposase), and it could make instantly transgenic bees. However, it's unlikely that it would be stable. A plus.

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Sorry, I don't know how to link to a PDF document but Eric Mussen has some really interesting info about Monsanto and Remebee in his most recent newsletter which you can easily subscribe to free of charge here: Also some interesting pesticide related info.

    Sorry link isnt working. Perhaps search UC Davis/Mussen
    Last edited by jim lyon; 06-26-2013 at 06:15 AM. Reason: Typo
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #170
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Here is the link to the Mussen article Jim mentions above:
    http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/168326.pdf

    The relevant comments start at the bottom of page 2.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  11. #171
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Thanks, Graham. Perhaps Barry needs to upgrade your title to Resident archiver/link specialist.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    The newsletter mentions the find that Varroa can take up ds RNA from bees.

    That suggests the off target issue that I've mentioned before.

  13. #173
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    See, I did not "invent" it - I just steal idea from Monsanto seeds agreement. It is totally my fantasy ...
    yes, it is total fantasy
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #174
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    [QUOTE=cerezha;962899]See, I did not "invent" it -

    Sergey,

    You keep posting pure nonsense. You clearly have very little understanding of agriculture. Planting an extra 25% of seeds because you have an 80% germination rate is not a solution to poor germination for instance. Maybe that is what is done in Russia but is a miserable practice for obvious reasons. Reasons have nothing to do with beekeeping so you figure it out on your own.

    You clearly do not understand how Monsanto runs their business, what the agreements actually state nor who Monsanto has sued. Again, not beekeeping so you figure it out. But until then stop making up facts. That is not intended as a defense of Monsanto. I do not like the company as I have stated in the past for reasons that have nothing to do with their current or past product line.

    Everything you eat is GMO. You will probably never figure that out I suppose. GMO is not new at all. Nature has been in the GMO business for 4 billion years and is very, very good at it. Better than man is in the lab.

    You also use Wikipedia as a source! Kind of incredible. I thought anyone who was a high school grad would realize the only time it is appropriate to use Wikipedia as a source is if the topic of the paper is Wikipedia.

  15. #175
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    yes, it is total fantasy
    You have to admit that I have very "creative" fantasy!
    Серёжа, Sergey

  16. #176
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    What about the OSGATA suit?

    That wasn't a fantasy, even though they lost.

  17. #177
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    You have to admit that I have very "creative" fantasy!
    yes, a very creative fantasy, lol
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #178
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ... Eric Mussen has some really interesting info about Monsanto and Remebee in his most recent newsletter...
    Indeed, interesting info. I particularly like his passages regarding geo-map showing correlation between applied pesticides and bee loses (if I understood correctly) and that economist predicted bee-industry collapse if beekepers will continue to recover their loses by splitting the colonies (correct me if I am wrong). As for Remebee - it sounded really cool, but there are number of concerns with this approach:
    - making RNA is expensive;
    - RNA generally is unstable. dsRNA is more stable than single-stranded, but still - the purpose of dsRNA is to be "diced" by a Dicer, so it should have a short life
    - dsRNA does not induce a real immunity with immune-system involved. Since dsRNA is unnatural, it draws attention at the intracellular level but it is not immunity because it has no memory - once dsRNA disappeared, cell does not remember anymore and does not provide specific respond.
    - it potentially could work against viruses. It does not work against mites - Monsanto will won a Nobel Prize if they figured out how to target the varroa itself with RNAi.
    - we need to understand, that Monsanto is not creating the science, they just use (buy) it. Thus, they should wait until somebody will solve varroa problem, probably in academia ... to buy it out ...
    Серёжа, Sergey

  19. #179
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Let me remind you, there are interntional treaties that prohibit the testing of the very agents that they used in California.

    They tested a local CCD strain of IAPV, along with an Isreali derived jumping gene, on Honeybees, in the California Valley, right before almond pollination.

    That's why the trial was halted.

  20. #180
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post

    - it potentially could work against viruses. It does not work against mites -
    Thats all we need to be able to control. If we can neutralize the viral infections transferred by the mites, the predictably of mite levels will allow us to make better decision in regards to mite treatments. These viral infections may be the root cause of these massive hive loss reports, as there is no way for beekeepers to measure viral loads or do anything about them other than knocking the mite down
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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