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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Richard:

    I just got back another batch of sequences. So...

    There is a difference between manmade, instant transgenic evolution, evolution occurring over millions of years, and selective breeding.

    As for a gene gun, it worked remarkably well for something so unsophisticated.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Richard:


    There is a difference between manmade, instant transgenic evolution, evolution occurring over millions of years, and selective breeding.

    As for a gene gun, it worked remarkably well for something so unsophisticated.
    As we learn more and more about genetics the line between what we do in the lab and what nature has done in the field is becoming smaller. Right now nature is way ahead of the lab. Take wheat for instance. Wheat is a man made species that never existed wild. We do know from the lab what nature did to make wheat in conjunction with man domesticating various grass plants. But we today could not do in the lab what man plus nature did and recreate wheat. Probably the very best we could do in the lab would be to create another new species similar to, but not the same as, wheat. In general our ability to create new species in the lab today is limited to bacteria with only a few exceptions. And bloody simple bacteria at that.

    My example of cattle having 30% of their DNA coming directly from snakes is fact. Next time anyone eats a steak remember that 30% of the DNA in that steak came directly from snakes. This was a transpecies movement of DNA done by nature. No breeding by man involved at all.

    In fact the human genome is loaded with DNA that is foreign also. Again the result of nature taking DNA from non human sources and stuffing it into the human genome.

    I agree with you 100% that the gene gun works amazingly well. On the surface it is surprising to me that anyone even tried such a brutal technique.

    I look forward to the day someone (government, university, private company, whoever - I do not care) does some genetic stuff with bees. At least generate a good SNP map or equivalent so we can start to do some serious genetic selection and perhaps even gene transplantation. At least get us up close to the level of understanding we have with cattle. Right now we know more about pigeons than we know about bees thanks in large part to China. Prices do have to drop a bit first I realize. The business of doing blind breeding studies is dark ages stuff. It works but is grindingly slow working and misses more advances than it captures.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Uhhh...

    Richard...

    The Honeybee Genome has already been sequenced. I think that they're already on the fourth build or so.

    There's alot of genome, transcriptome, proteome, epigenome, methylome, and other ome work that has already been done.

    In fact, Gene Robinson is now working with Monsanto. So...

    Don't ask about Remebee. I say it was a transgenic agent.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post

    Hybridizers of the past didn't use DNA guns.
    They also didn't use jet planes for travel.

    However, I suspect that if they'd had access to DNA guns, the hybridizers of the past would've loved them and used them at every opportunity. Why would you actually want to slog through countless Punnett square combinations to get what you ultimately want, when you can select immediately and exclusively?
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    melliferal,

    RR wheat was shelved as the growers so little benefit from it. Winter wheat doesn't need much weed control the way it's managed for the most part. I've seen bees in corn, heard the fields buzzing at times even but for whatever reason, hard pressed to see them on tassles but you do occasionally, but the way the fields sounded I thought it'd be easy. The main issue is they have no reason to visit the silks to actually pollinate in my opnion.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Even if Varroa was defeated and CCD did not exist, we would still likely be bombarded with hype about an imminent pollinator shortages from some university professors and the anti-pesticide groups. Evidence: Look at this July 13, 2001 article (before the era of neonic seed treatments and before GMO crops were widely planted): http://www.panna.org/legacy/panups/p...010713.dv.html

    Pollinator Declines Could Increase Food Prices July 13, 2001

    "A global shortage of bees and other insects that pollinate plants is destroying crops around the world and could lead to far higher prices for fruits and vegetables, according to researchers at the University of Guelph, Canada. "The consumers are ultimately going to pay," said Dr. Peter Kevan, an environmental biology professor at the university. "Instead of buying an apple for 30˘, you'll end up paying $1.50 for it." Pollinator populations have been hit hard by increased pesticide use in recent years, and much of their natural habitat, such as dead trees and old fence posts, have been destroyed to make room for more farmland, Dr. Kevan added.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    delete
    Last edited by cg3; 06-17-2013 at 04:25 PM. Reason: unneccesary
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Did anyone catch Monsanto's recent Honey Bee Advisory Council?

    They figured out that Varroa is the biggest threat to beekeeping.

    Of course, it took over 100 people to figure that one out.

    PR overkill perhaps?

    They should have had something better to announce at the HBAC, like a solution to the neonic contaminated talc problem. OR, an actual cure to Varroa.

    So, as far as 'hype' goes, the 'Captain Obvious' award goes to the HBAC.

    BD, it's not hype if an entire continent just banned neonic seeds.
    Last edited by WLC; 06-17-2013 at 04:34 PM.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    BD, it's not hype if an entire continent just banned neonic seeds.
    I find it interesting how different societies perceive and accept risk. Much of Europe, for whatever the reason, has chosen to err on the side of safety with neonic seed treatments yet on safety issues where personal freedom is affected such as public smoking, alcohol consumption (even moderate amounts by pregnant women), and even speed limits and traffic laws in general are all issues that Europeans seem willing to assume much more risk. High "carbon taxes" yet no low sulphur diesel fuel. I am not quite sure what all this says except that in many ways Europeans see things much differently than Americans.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    European countries also get about 15-45% of their electricity from nuclear power plants - in France the figure is 75% from 56 nuke plants. Hungary banned Monsanto's GMO crops, yet they get 47% of their power from 4 nuke plants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ... in many ways Europeans see things much differently than Americans.
    Bees are important part of European culture and Europeans are concerned. If people concerned, the governments responded. Make sense to me. In US such approach just does not work because we have "representative" democracy - somebody represents your interests. Usually large corporations are more efficient in "representing" our interests. I guess, the believe is that ordinary American is not capable properly represent him/herself

    As for quality of EU life standards - they are very good in many areas. They do regulate black carbon - permitted amount is 10x less than in US. Black carbon is a carcinogen in EU and a "potential carcinogen" in US. As for sulfur - please, keep in mind that Europeans do not use much trucks and coal. They use an electric engines on railroad to move things - much less diesel emission than in US.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    European countries also get about 15-45% of their electricity from nuclear power plants...
    It is true, but you forgot to mention that biggest EU economy, Germany is banning all its nuclear plants and right now use 20-25% its electricity from renewable sources.
    "The share of electricity produced from renewable energy in Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to about 25 percent in the first half of 2012... In 2011 20.5% (123.5 TWh) of Germany's electricity supply (603 TWH) was produced from renewable energy sources,"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewab...rgy_in_Germany
    Серёжа, Sergey

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    BD:

    I'm still not convinced that the HBAC accomplished anything substantive.

    Besides a few other announcements, they planted 450 acres for native pollinators?

    But, 80 million acres of corn and 70 million acres of soybeans, mostly GM, dwarf that and don't seem to be attractive to bees either managed or native.

    The HBAC looks like a PR gimmick that's a dollar short and a day late in comparison to the EU ban.

    When they do finally do something meaningful, perhaps I'll be more impressed.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    We should be looking at the European ban as a good opportunity to maybe settle the issue without impacting our farmers unneccesarily.
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Do you mean if Honeybee and pollinator health aren't improved in the EU, then the neonic seed ban would be proven unnecessary?

    That's possible.

    Although there was the neonic maize ban in Italy, were Honeybee colony losses saw a large drop.

    Regardless, it's a classic environmental vs economic contest.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Do you mean if Honeybee and pollinator health aren't improved in the EU, then the neonic seed ban would be proven unnecessary? That's possible.
    It's not physically possible for the european ban to improve bee health because incidents of bee exposure to dust coming off corn seeds as they’re being planted are very rare (e.g. two reported possible incidents in Minnesota this spring out of thousands of corn planting operations in the State).

    Dave Fischer from Bayer explains:
    http://vegetablegrowersnews.com/inde...for-bee-deaths

    "Foraging bees have been exposed if seeds weren’t treated properly, or in unusual environmental conditions such as dust coming off corn seeds as they’re being planted. Such incidents have occurred in Europe, Canada and the United States, but they’re very rare, especially considering the millions of acres of treated seeds that are planted every year, Fischer said. “There’s been only a handful of confirmed incidents after all these years,” he said.

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    BD:

    Let's make believe that the EU ban is for real, and not some kind of political ploy.

    The outcomes are:

    Bee health is restored and EU agriculture is unharmed,

    Bee health is restored, and EU agriculture suffers,

    Bee health is unaffected, and EU agriculture is unaffected,

    Both bee health and EU agriculture suffer.

    I count three ways to lose, and only one way to win.

    If I were the EU, I would have asked for a neonic talc fix.

    They're taking quite a risk with the ban.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    sorry - marine biology, we discussed it somewhere on beesource - search the original link.

    "He holds a B.S. in Biological Sciences from U.C. Irvine and a M.S. in Fisheries Biology from Humboldt State University."
    http://projectapism.org/content/blogcategory/109/29/
    I was referring to his background in agriculture, you know, the good old actual out there and doing it background
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    I'm wondering if he pointed out that it would be far better for both farmers and beekeepers if GM crops were attractive to bees (and other livestock).

    I mean, if you're a farmer and a beekeeper, it seems a shame to plant a crop that your bees can't pollinate.

    However, there are crop strains that are pollinator friendly. Too bad that they're not GM.

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    I grow canola, wheat, corn, barley,
    I pull honey off my canola,
    how exactly are you suggesting I get honey off these other crops? if they were GM?? I dont grow crops for my bees, I grow crops to make a lively hood, the honey comes secondary
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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