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  1. #61
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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Do you have evidence that growers of Silver Queen sweet corn are seeing a yield advantage from honeybee pollination? As Barry pointed out, your video, while interesting, is hardly relevant to the varieties of field corn grown by nearly every corn farmer across the US. It's not "my corn" it's the field corn sold by such seed breeders as Pioneer and Dekalb near virtually every bee location we operate. I will pay you a thousand dollars if you can take such a video with one of our bee locations in the back ground. Claiming a 10% yield advantage on such varieties where bees are so rarely even seen is folly. On the outside chance you win the lottery and find such video evidence I would require a name address and SSN# for the 1099. .
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  2. #62
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Jim:

    I also provided a link to a Xerces article that mentioned a boost in soybean yields of 10-40% thanks to Honeybee pollination.

    No, I don't know if the same thing is happening with 'Silver Queen' corn.

    I'm advocating for something better from Monsanto, Bayer et al. besides a 'bandaid' Varroa strip.

    I think all GM crops should be pollinator friendly.

    Have you ever thought of asking the folks at Pioneer and Dekalb if they have, or ever considered developing, pollinator friendly field corn?

    Just a suggestion.
    Last edited by WLC; 06-16-2013 at 06:57 AM.

  3. #63
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Well soybeans are "another kettle of fish" that is for sure. Clearly there are varieties and situations where nectar has been produced and honey crops raised from soybeans. It is all a bit mysterious and elusive to me. We saw it on some bees in western Iowa 20+ years ago but haven't seen it for years. I routinely walk into soybean fields through the summer and just never see bees working it, though they can be quite difficult to see as there is so much foliage and it's under a canopy. I occassionally will hear what sounds like a honey bee but have never actually observed one on a bloom. The folks at places like Pioneer aren't going to be too impressed by my suggestions I am afraid, they are owned by DuPont and have been making a concerted effort for years to control the seed market. I am surprised that they seem to have escaped the same (rightful) public scrutiny that the rest of the large agri-business companies have. Virtually all the small seed corn companies have been bought out by these giants long ago. Want to raise a lot of grain? Just sign up with these folks, sign your Monsanto agreement pay an outrageous amount for your seed and build yourself a great big grain bin. You will find out why good farm ground is bringing $10,000 per acre.
    Last edited by jim lyon; 06-16-2013 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Additional info
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,438

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    On the outside chance you win the lottery and find such video evidence I would require a name address and SSN# for the 1099. .
    And the name would have to be made available here as proof!
    Regards, Barry

  5. #65
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    No, Barry. I'm not going out to SD for $1,000. No bet.

  6. #66
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    No, Barry. I'm not going out to SD for $1,000. No bet.
    Well there are a lot of folks out here who wouldn't go to NYC for $1,000 either. Just make it a point to walk into a large corn or soybean field somewhere in your travels and actually get some first hand experience about some of what you speak. It's far better than a downloaded You Tube video. I don't profess to know much more about this issue than what my first hand experience has shown me. I speak up because I am afraid that what a lot of people will take away from these threads the notion that corn is a major pollen and maybe even nectar plant and that, in my experience, is simply just not true.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #67
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    I've seen enough fields here in NY state. I didn't look close enough to notice if any pollination was going on though.

    I was making the point that there are varieties of corn and soybean that do attract bees.

    But, you're saying that most of the corn you've seen isn't pollinator friendly.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Eugene, Oregon USA
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    323

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Maybe nobody told the bees in these photos that they weren't supposed to forage on corn....

    https://www.google.com/search?q=phot...w=1186&bih=603

  9. #69
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    hmmm I dont know guys,
    we grow hundreds of acres of corn, and I have bees right beside the fields
    I have yet to see a bee on a corn plant during tasseling
    they do say on humid dewy mornings during times when other sources are not in bloom, they will visit corn. But they also visit our saw dust pile during times of nothing else avaliable

    and for soybeans, it would be nice if they made those flowers attractive to bees
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #70
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    All I am doing is relating my experiences and I have kept bees in the heart of corn country all of my life. I don't care much about some pictures taken in some unknown time or place. I don't care one way or another if they work corn or not.
    Big dawg: have you walked any corn fields or are you just repeating what you have heard?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Sacramento, Calif. USA
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    272

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Jim & Ian are right - in the upper Midwest, one does not see bees on field corn and it's very rare to see any on soybean blooms. All the pollinator action is on the margins of the corn and soy fields like this: https://imageshack.com/a/img834/3415/fsth.jpg
    https://imageshack.com/a/img211/3637/b0go.jpg

  12. #72
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    "...in the upper Midwest, one does not see bees on field corn and it's very rare to see any on soybean blooms..."

    Well that does it. They're just going to have to move southeast until they do!

  13. #73
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Some fun facts:

    "Around 80 million acres of land are planted to corn, with the majority of the crop grown in the Heartland region."

    http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops...ackground.aspx

    "Soybeans in the U.S. are planted on approximately 72 million acres ..."

    http://www.wishh.org/aboutsoy/ussoyproduction.html

    When you compare the acreage of the above to almonds...

    "And with almond acreage increasing steadily in recent years, the bees must now pollinate 760,000 acres (307,500 hectares) of trees."

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment...en-almond-crop

    It looks like you would need about 100 times the number of hives that are currently in the US.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
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    475

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    That is the best way to get GMO's off the market place, if consumers quit buying them
    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    We all know that's not going to happen.
    Don't be so sure.

    Why is there no GMO wheat currently used in food products? The stuff is around - and it hasn't been shown to be dangerous or toxic in any way. So what gives?

    What gives is that it's not commercially available. Nobody will buy it, so nobody goes to the trouble of growing and stocking seed. That's all there is to it.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  15. #75
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
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    86

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Why is there no GMO wheat currently used in food products?

    All wheat is a GMO product. That is right, 100% of it. Wheat is a man made plant created by some accidental and amazingly complex genetic engineering. There never was any such thing as a wheat plant in the wild.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon USA
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    323

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Breeding and genetic modification are two VERY different things. GMO's are only able to be created in a lab using very sophisticated techniques to force the DNA of one organism into the DNA of another organism. GMO's do NOT occur outside of a laboratory....

  17. #77
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Uhh...

    There are accidents that do occur in plants, and of course, there are transposable elements as well.

    But in general, I think that we can say that selective breeding is sufficiently different enough from recombinant DNA technology that we can tell the difference.

    We do know the exact sequence that we're putting into an organism for instance.

    Hybridizers of the past didn't use DNA guns.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    lenoir caldwell county north carolina
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    23

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    25 years ago there was still a lot of feral bees spread across the us. There were feral hives (bee trees)in every fence row and wood lot. The commercial bees were in completion with there feral cousins.( Bees would forage any source of nectar). Bees were every where. You could not walk through the lawn clover on a sunny summer morning in your bare feet with out getting stung. There are no true feral bees any more. Varroa came in at the most opportune time to take the blame for there demise. Varroa gets a small portion of the credit in my book but not all!!!!! Wild bees left on there own will learn to live with varroa just as the Russian bee has done, but they can never survive the pesticide or GMO war. More chemicals may prolong there existence but the end will come.

  19. #79
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    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
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    86

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
    Breeding and genetic modification are two VERY different things. GMO's are only able to be created in a lab using very sophisticated techniques to force the DNA of one organism into the DNA of another organism. GMO's do NOT occur outside of a laboratory....
    I suppose that is why 30% of the DNA in cattle came directly from snakes? Sorry BigDawg but until you are ready to talk to me about how the Gibb's free energy difference between the enol and keto forms of adenine governs T->C errors I suggest you not try to tell me anything about genetics or what can happen in nature vs what can happen in the lab. You see, I could teach a grad level course in genetics and you clearly know nothing about the topic. You do not even know how unsophisticated a gene gun is! A gene gun it a gun. It is pure brutal. Nothing sophisticated about it at all.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    1,496

    Default Re: Monsanto & Bayer Working On Varroa Mite Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    ... Randy Oliver so much, his back ground in agriculture proves to be very useful
    sorry - marine biology, we discussed it somewhere on beesource - search the original link.

    "He holds a B.S. in Biological Sciences from U.C. Irvine and a M.S. in Fisheries Biology from Humboldt State University."
    http://projectapism.org/content/blogcategory/109/29/
    Серёжа, Sergey

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