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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Cleo, yes I have been reading the posts about Joseph's trap I haven't quite grasped the entire concept yet. I will probably have to look at the actual trap to understand it totally. It sounds exciting though.

    The bees have just about run out in the tree, and still no queen. I am considering pulling the trap. I hate to give up on her, but I don't know what else to do. I do know as soon as I pull the trap they are going to exterminate the rest of the bees that are left behind.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Cleo, I know you may not see this since you are on your trip, but I just wanted to tell you I checked the tree trap and I got close to a pound more of bees, but to my surprise, the queen was in the trap also. She came through the funnel. She is a big black queen. I think I've gotten most of these bees, now. Catching the queen was about as exciting as killing a ten point buck!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Bill91143... Congrats, Close call between big buck and catching a queen in the trap.

    Just now leaving for Georgia. If I have internet, I will check back in tonight.

    cchoganjr

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Summerville South Carolina
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Sounds good. Mine is made to move and slide down on top of the frames. It is thin enough to lay on top and be flush with the hive top. I like because you don't need a nuc box at all. It has worked so well that I would not go back to nuc boxes. Have a nice trip in George. I will be going through Georgia Fri.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Joseph has a few different bells and whistles in the tunnel compared to Cleo, but if I understand it his main queen-capture technique is to reopen the tunnel after closing it (with a one-way exit) for three days, while also placing emerging brood in the trap along with eggs/open brood. That makes sense to me: the queen wants to be where the bees/stores are, but she is reluctant to go through the funnel. Thus closing the tunnel to get more bees and stores in the trap before opening it up to let the queen move ought to work.

    I may try that method with my oak tree bees starting today. Yesterday I sealed off a new entrance they had found and added two more frames of brood, giving them a three-frame broodnest in the trap with four more frames for honey storage on the far side. Today I expect to find the brood frames covered in nurse bees. If there is no queen I will close off the tunnel until Friday, forcing the trap to fill with field bees and stores, then reopen it and check for the queen Sat-Sun-Mon. I'm a little concerned that concentrating the field bees in the trap will cause backfilling of the brood cells as we are in a strong flow at the moment.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Summerville South Carolina
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    My box has no tunnel from the tree to the box. It is flush against the hole held up by the tree board I screw in to the tree leaving the only escape is the hole I have in the tree board, It then has a 1/2 bolt to hang the box on that fits the box so the two holes will be in line with each other. Once you tighten the bolt then it is ready. You only have from their original entrance the board and the box giving only 1 1/2 inch walk way before entering into the box. At that point, they can either go straight to the brood frame and out that hole if they want too, or turn right out the "tunnel" there. Since it is open then they can come and go through both holes. Once you slide the slider to close off the box entrance, then all bees leaving the tree must exit to the right and up the screen only to return to the box outside. I have found that three days of full closure is enough for the first attempt. After three days I open the hole up and allow the bees to adjust for what they want to do. Many will choose to go back in the tree, but this is also proof that many have begun work in the box and stays, The queen has come over and laid eggs the first cycle, but there may be a need to be done again. The tree being closed off makes it uncomfortable and so even if things don't happen the first time, another close out forcing the workers to pack in the box when they return begins the population growth in the box. Thanks

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    The only thing I did different was take an old queen which I was going to replace anyway and put her in a frame size cage that I built and I hung it in the trap next to the tunnel, and this morning the feral queen was hanging on the side of the queen cage. I may have found a good use for this queen since she sure isn't worth anything for laying. I'm going to take her now, and put her in the trap I have on the house. If I get another queen hanging on the side of her cage I will start thinking that maybe I'm on to something.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    I should have looked at the pictures on eBay before commenting - makes much more sense now. I do wonder if the same queen-capture success could be achieved using Cleo's design by closing the tunnel for three days and then opening it again. If I don't have the queen today I'm going to try it...

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Summerville South Carolina
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    When you close off the tunnel does it allow for the field bees to still come out and then return to the box?. It should work.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    I modeled my design on this one:
    http://www.tsbeeshoney.com/1/archives/04-2012/1.html

    The only difference is that when I close off the tunnel the bees still go directly into the box rather than outside. They just can't get back into the tree. Just checked and no queen today. Closed off the tunnel and will plan on opening it back up on Friday.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    [QUOTE=josephus1;958990] I like because you don't need a nuc box at all. It QUOTE]

    I still use some nuc boxes. They are so much easier to move, when splitting 50 hives and moving to a different yard. But the board makes it nice to not have to move frames from the nuc into a 10 framer for customer pickup.

    Occasionally after placing the splits in 10 frame equipment, if I don't have enough frames to fill the box, the spacer will stop them from dropping comb until I get back.

    cchoganjr

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kingsville, OH
    Posts
    959

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    A trap out from a big tree was not complete, so I was out adding brace wire to the platform the box was on. The tube was not in the box yet, but the bees were coming and going from the box. While I was up in the tree,,over 20 feet, I noticed the bees pouring out of the tube. They were not just coming out, they were running like the house was on fire. I looked around and yeap they wear swarming. My wife was on the ground and she told me the front of the box was covered. Well I new the weight from the box and bees would be too heavy for the platform, and I was adding a cable to support it. The whole thing went boom to the ground, swarm, box and most of the platform. The video shows the box with bees still going in it after I put it back together.

    http://youtu.be/CpwKQUvNiBY

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    I went to the trap out at the house to check the trap and see how many bees were in it. I closed the entrance tunnel except for the funnel a couple of days ago. When I lifted the led on the trap it was full of bees. Probably about five pounds. I know it was a good deal more than a three pound package. I think over the last 10 days or so I had trapped most of the bees. Even after I pulled the trap and tunnel off the house very few bees were flying around. When I got the bees to my home I checked through them and there was no queen, but when looking at the bait brood and comb I found that they had made two queen cells. I was shocked to see the cells, but after thinking about it, as the bees pass through the funnel they would have been unable to enter back into the main hive so they would feel queenless, so it's only logical that they would take some of the youngest brood and start to make a queen. From two trap outs (the tree and the house) I have boosted two weak hives and started three nucs. I was able to catch the queen from the tree but not from the house. This has been my first experience at trapping bees and I really had fun doing it. Plus I was really surprised at how easy making and setting up the trap was.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Good job Bill91143. Trapping can be a lot of fun,especially when they become challenging.

    cchoganjr

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    I got the queen today! I think she came through the funnel, but it's possible she crossed into the trap three days ago before I closed the funnel and I just didn't see her then. My sample size is admittedly only one, but I think I have a method that will work reliably to get the queen. I'll call it the Hogan-Joseph method, from this thread.

    1. Build a Hogan trap and mate it to the tree. My trap is a deep with seven drawn frames, though I might use some foundation in the future if all of my drawn comb is in use.
    2. Add a frame of eggs/open brood, leaving the tunnel open. Wait one week, checking occasionally for the queen if the trap is not too far from home.
    --This gives the bees time to accept the trap and to bring in some nectar/pollen stores, and it allows them to start viewing the trap as a brood chamber.
    3. If no queen yet, add a frame of eggs/open brood and a frame of capped/emerging brood, with the emerging brood in the center of the three brood frames.
    4. Close up the tunnel for three days.
    --After three days, the trap will contain all of the foragers, a good proportion of the nurse bees, and a complete brood nest with empty cells in the center (from the emerged capped brood) ready for the queen to lay in. The queen will start to feel "left out" and will want to be in the trap.
    5. Open the tunnel for one day, then inspect for the queen.
    6. If no queen, repeat steps 4 and 5 up to three times, depending on the landowner's patience and my own.

    In this instance I found the queen after the second iteration of closing the tunnel for three days.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    [My trap is a deep with seven drawn frames, though I might use some foundation in the future if all of my drawn comb is in use.]

    I just finished two trap outs. One I caught the queen, and one I didn't. I have already used most of my drawn comb so I had some frames of foundation in my traps and they paid no attention to the foundation. Each time I checked my traps I would have bees clinging on my brood and on the drawn comb but they seemed to totally ignore the foundation.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    National City, MI, USA
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Luterra, when you say close up the tunnel. Do you mean close it off so that no bees can enter or exit the tunnel or are you installing a funnel? Also when you close up the tunnel are you using 1/8" hardware cloth / screen or something solid like a piece or wood?

    I have a Hogan trap that has been hanging for 2 weeks today with 7 frames of foundation, tunnel wide open so bees can travel back and forth and the bees haven't built up anything on the foundation. I'm planning on installing a funnel tomorrow evening unless someone has a better suggestion. The goal is to remove as many of the bees as possible as the owner wants them gone.

    Background
    These bees were a swarm that took over an old hive located in a soffit. They landed on 6/11 and I placed the trap on 6/12.


    Thanks and sorry for hijacking the thread

    Rodney

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Summerville South Carolina
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    Did you not put a frame of brood in it to begin with? I don't know how the box you have works as far as the tunnel is concerned. If there is a way to hook up the screen funnel and then un set it at will then you are at a better advantage. Look at the box at http://www.ebay.com/itm/130928184013...84.m1555.l2649 an see if you can do something similar.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Summerville South Carolina
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    PS: This box hooks up on the side. You first attach a 3/4 thick board that is about 18 by 9 inches wide that has a hole in it. That board is then worked (sealing etc.) with until only the hole already cut in it is the only way the beers can come and go.That is first put on the tree or building It has a 1/2 bolt that will allow you to hook the hive box to it with its hole aligned in there.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Hogan trap out sequence

    I modeled my tunnel after this one:
    http://www.tsbeeshoney.com/1/post/20...e-phase-1.html

    The tunnel is closed by a square block of wood that slips into a slot. When it is closed bees must use the funnel on top of the tunnel. When it is open bees can either use the funnel or the large opening. Joseph's design forces the bees outside when the connection to the box is closed. Cleo Hogan's design has the funnel exit directly into the box. We would need a scientific experiment to determine which is more effective.

    Foundation doesn't mean much to bees. If they need to draw comb and there happens to be foundation where they want the comb to be, they will follow the stamped pattern and draw good uniform comb. But in general they won't go to where the foundation is. If you can, add in a few frames of drawn comb and at least one frame of brood. The trick to a Hogan-style trap is to convince the bees that the trap is an extension of the hive in need of some attention. The trick (from what I gather so far) to a Joseph-style trapout is to convince the bees that the trap is the primary brood chamber, which is accomplished using added brood frames and a one-way exit for a few days to concentrate most of the bees in the trap before opening it up to let the queen through.

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